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	<title>Comments on: Finance Markets need your support!</title>
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	<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/finance-markets-need-your-support/</link>
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		<title>By: James Drysdale</title>
		<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/finance-markets-need-your-support/#comment-4255</link>
		<dc:creator>James Drysdale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 23:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/23/finance-markets-need-your-support/#comment-4255</guid>
		<description>Too funny guys</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too funny guys</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Ricci</title>
		<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/finance-markets-need-your-support/#comment-4254</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Ricci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/23/finance-markets-need-your-support/#comment-4254</guid>
		<description>Mr Burns, that is ok, I got it! Kind of :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Burns, that is ok, I got it! Kind of <img src='http://www.business2.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Mr Burns</title>
		<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/finance-markets-need-your-support/#comment-4253</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 08:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/23/finance-markets-need-your-support/#comment-4253</guid>
		<description>Darned typing machine misquoted me again, the 3rd last paragraph was supposed to read.

&quot;Congratulations for sharing and rest assured your Super is protected and you have preference over the troglodytes who dominate the general population.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darned typing machine misquoted me again, the 3rd last paragraph was supposed to read.</p>
<p>&#8220;Congratulations for sharing and rest assured your Super is protected and you have preference over the troglodytes who dominate the general population.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Burns</title>
		<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/finance-markets-need-your-support/#comment-4252</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/23/finance-markets-need-your-support/#comment-4252</guid>
		<description>Sorry Sir les I should have commented on your latest post.

You are indeed gifted with the insight that only a worldly statesman can lay claim to.

Congratulations for sharing and rest assured your Super is protected and has preferrence over the troglides who populate the general population.

As a friend of mine once said  -

&quot; Just give the great unwashed a pair of oversized breasts and a happy ending, and they&#039;ll &#039;oink&#039; for more every time &quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Sir les I should have commented on your latest post.</p>
<p>You are indeed gifted with the insight that only a worldly statesman can lay claim to.</p>
<p>Congratulations for sharing and rest assured your Super is protected and has preferrence over the troglides who populate the general population.</p>
<p>As a friend of mine once said  -</p>
<p>&#8221; Just give the great unwashed a pair of oversized breasts and a happy ending, and they&#8217;ll &#8216;oink&#8217; for more every time &#8220;</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Simeon</title>
		<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/finance-markets-need-your-support/#comment-4249</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Simeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 05:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/23/finance-markets-need-your-support/#comment-4249</guid>
		<description>Q. How do you get rid of an investment banker at your front door?





A. Just pay for the pizza!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Q. How do you get rid of an investment banker at your front door?</p>
<p>A. Just pay for the pizza!</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Burns</title>
		<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/finance-markets-need-your-support/#comment-4251</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 04:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/23/finance-markets-need-your-support/#comment-4251</guid>
		<description>If you want to know where all this is going read this Q &amp; A from a forum -

1) Where does all this money required to bail out these Companies come from---I believe its just printed and isn&#039;t actually a &quot;surplus&quot; as such.So wheres it come from?

US Treasury creates bonds from nothing, loans them to Fed Reserve who loans to an ever expanding list of appoved borrowers.(Thats why Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley both changed their status yesterday, pure investment banks aren&#039;t allowed at the Fed&#039;s begging bowl.)

(2) Where does this money go ---who gets it---who benefits---

Paulson wants it all for Wall St, Congress is debating who else should get some how is it used to buy worthless **** on bank balance sheets that they can&#039;t sell anywhere else ---what actually IS the debt being paid out? very complex non-exchange derivatives which have a variety of euphemisms - &quot;mortgage securities,&quot; &quot;troubled assets,&quot; etc which have lost massive value, while some are swaps which have been triggered due to Lehmans bankrupcy which means counterparties have promised a truckload of money in case of default, but don&#039;t have.

(3) OK so these debts are paid out---who owes who for what?


If the govt buys the toxic paper, the banks owe nothing, they have just &quot;sold&quot; the govt something. transaction finished.
Does the Government now own the companies bailed out? Only those they&#039;ve injected capital into in exchange for equity such as 80% AIG and in effect Fannie and Freddie Do they have to pay back the debt---ever? Debt thats written off, or bought at reduced rates doesn&#039;t have to be paid back, but someone has to take the hit on the balance sheet

(4) OK so now the American government is in deeper and deeper debt---TO WHO?

To whoever buys the bonds, up to now, to many foreign govts, but if foreigners don&#039;t buy, they print money themselves and owe it to themselves - national debt Whats to stop a never ending increase in debt? Nothing. Thats what will happen.
How would this debt be paid back? It can&#039;t. Theoretically it could, like Australia has, by running govt budget surpluses until its all paid back, but the US is way too deep in debt to do that. Also its obligations are rising - medicare, social security, this etc, while its tax base drastically shrinks with a recession Who would pay it back? The loans from the Fed window will never be paid back, just rolled over forever If its never paid back then what. The Fed has a horribly impaired balance sheet which for which its had to print money to cover. The USD drops.

(5) I understand that hyper inflation will devalue the monetary system of the country involved.

Yes, thats whats coming, very serious inflation At that point of collapse what happens to start it up again as Germany did? Yes, exactly same situation - massive, unrepayable debts, lead to printing money to pay, which devalues the currency at an everincreasing rate.
Whats the process? To start over? Same as Germany, issue a new currency. Or same as Russia and many others, keep the old one and lop 3 zeroes off every so often, shafting anyone holding bank accounts with the old currency instead of hard assets at that time.

6. You didn&#039;t ask this, but I will. Will it work?

No, the problem is way too big. The OTC derivs which are starting to unwind and fall over are 1.1 quadrillion dollars now. 1300 times bigger than the proposed bailout</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want to know where all this is going read this Q &amp; A from a forum -</p>
<p>1) Where does all this money required to bail out these Companies come from&#8212;I believe its just printed and isn&#8217;t actually a &#8220;surplus&#8221; as such.So wheres it come from?</p>
<p>US Treasury creates bonds from nothing, loans them to Fed Reserve who loans to an ever expanding list of appoved borrowers.(Thats why Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley both changed their status yesterday, pure investment banks aren&#8217;t allowed at the Fed&#8217;s begging bowl.)</p>
<p>(2) Where does this money go &#8212;who gets it&#8212;who benefits&#8212;</p>
<p>Paulson wants it all for Wall St, Congress is debating who else should get some how is it used to buy worthless **** on bank balance sheets that they can&#8217;t sell anywhere else &#8212;what actually IS the debt being paid out? very complex non-exchange derivatives which have a variety of euphemisms &#8211; &#8220;mortgage securities,&#8221; &#8220;troubled assets,&#8221; etc which have lost massive value, while some are swaps which have been triggered due to Lehmans bankrupcy which means counterparties have promised a truckload of money in case of default, but don&#8217;t have.</p>
<p>(3) OK so these debts are paid out&#8212;who owes who for what?</p>
<p>If the govt buys the toxic paper, the banks owe nothing, they have just &#8220;sold&#8221; the govt something. transaction finished.<br />
Does the Government now own the companies bailed out? Only those they&#8217;ve injected capital into in exchange for equity such as 80% AIG and in effect Fannie and Freddie Do they have to pay back the debt&#8212;ever? Debt thats written off, or bought at reduced rates doesn&#8217;t have to be paid back, but someone has to take the hit on the balance sheet</p>
<p>(4) OK so now the American government is in deeper and deeper debt&#8212;TO WHO?</p>
<p>To whoever buys the bonds, up to now, to many foreign govts, but if foreigners don&#8217;t buy, they print money themselves and owe it to themselves &#8211; national debt Whats to stop a never ending increase in debt? Nothing. Thats what will happen.<br />
How would this debt be paid back? It can&#8217;t. Theoretically it could, like Australia has, by running govt budget surpluses until its all paid back, but the US is way too deep in debt to do that. Also its obligations are rising &#8211; medicare, social security, this etc, while its tax base drastically shrinks with a recession Who would pay it back? The loans from the Fed window will never be paid back, just rolled over forever If its never paid back then what. The Fed has a horribly impaired balance sheet which for which its had to print money to cover. The USD drops.</p>
<p>(5) I understand that hyper inflation will devalue the monetary system of the country involved.</p>
<p>Yes, thats whats coming, very serious inflation At that point of collapse what happens to start it up again as Germany did? Yes, exactly same situation &#8211; massive, unrepayable debts, lead to printing money to pay, which devalues the currency at an everincreasing rate.<br />
Whats the process? To start over? Same as Germany, issue a new currency. Or same as Russia and many others, keep the old one and lop 3 zeroes off every so often, shafting anyone holding bank accounts with the old currency instead of hard assets at that time.</p>
<p>6. You didn&#8217;t ask this, but I will. Will it work?</p>
<p>No, the problem is way too big. The OTC derivs which are starting to unwind and fall over are 1.1 quadrillion dollars now. 1300 times bigger than the proposed bailout</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Burns</title>
		<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/finance-markets-need-your-support/#comment-4250</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 04:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/23/finance-markets-need-your-support/#comment-4250</guid>
		<description>What good is money if it can&#039;t inspire terror in your fellow man?

I&#039;ll keep it short and sweet -- Family. Religion. Friendship. These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What good is money if it can&#8217;t inspire terror in your fellow man?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll keep it short and sweet &#8212; Family. Religion. Friendship. These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Ricci</title>
		<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/finance-markets-need-your-support/#comment-4248</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Ricci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 00:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/23/finance-markets-need-your-support/#comment-4248</guid>
		<description>Maybe a different approach, a department set up to protect the consumers and let them fold.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe a different approach, a department set up to protect the consumers and let them fold.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn Batten</title>
		<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/finance-markets-need-your-support/#comment-4247</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Batten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 00:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/23/finance-markets-need-your-support/#comment-4247</guid>
		<description>They are incredible... the latest is that the financial sector claims the Government has to pay them more than the assets are valued at or it will not work.  This plan represents $US2000 for every single American!

I wonder if they will use those rules the next time I apply for a home loan.

They are actually trying to blackmail the government now saying that if they do not get the money the country will fall into a recession, and some even say a depression.  Personally I think a recession is a given, even with this bailout and once the unemployment figures come out over there it is all over.  This bailout will save the rest of the world and will save them only from a depression.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They are incredible&#8230; the latest is that the financial sector claims the Government has to pay them more than the assets are valued at or it will not work.  This plan represents $US2000 for every single American!</p>
<p>I wonder if they will use those rules the next time I apply for a home loan.</p>
<p>They are actually trying to blackmail the government now saying that if they do not get the money the country will fall into a recession, and some even say a depression.  Personally I think a recession is a given, even with this bailout and once the unemployment figures come out over there it is all over.  This bailout will save the rest of the world and will save them only from a depression.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Ricci</title>
		<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/finance-markets-need-your-support/#comment-4246</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Ricci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.business2.com.au/2008/09/23/finance-markets-need-your-support/#comment-4246</guid>
		<description>I have to laugh, after reading this I went onto some news sites and because the government was not going to just give them money to continue on as they did and bail them out with out any conditions the market dropped. I think it is ironic that this is the way the market works. I thought it would have gone up, considering that they would finally make sure that these companies did as they promoted instead of just execs pushing money into their own profits, it just demonstrates pathetically how the financial markets work, it is all about greed. This is a sad thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to laugh, after reading this I went onto some news sites and because the government was not going to just give them money to continue on as they did and bail them out with out any conditions the market dropped. I think it is ironic that this is the way the market works. I thought it would have gone up, considering that they would finally make sure that these companies did as they promoted instead of just execs pushing money into their own profits, it just demonstrates pathetically how the financial markets work, it is all about greed. This is a sad thing.</p>
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