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	<title>Comments on: Why you think advertising costs too much, and why it doesn&#8217;t</title>
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	<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2009/05/why-you-think-advertising-costs-too-much-and-why-it-doesnt/</link>
	<description>Real Estate Agent News and Information Technology</description>
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		<title>By: Robert Simeon</title>
		<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2009/05/why-you-think-advertising-costs-too-much-and-why-it-doesnt/#comment-5112</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Simeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:40:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.business2.com.au/?p=1068#comment-5112</guid>
		<description>COWABUNGA can be confused with their relatives BULLASH&amp;^A :) Much work for the property portals to do in order to stay relevant and more importantly subscription based as against free content.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>COWABUNGA can be confused with their relatives BULLASH&amp;^A <img src='http://www.business2.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Much work for the property portals to do in order to stay relevant and more importantly subscription based as against free content.</p>
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		<title>By: Paddy</title>
		<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2009/05/why-you-think-advertising-costs-too-much-and-why-it-doesnt/#comment-5111</link>
		<dc:creator>Paddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.business2.com.au/?p=1068#comment-5111</guid>
		<description>Glenn

I understand, and agree, that we disagree on the treatment of Dave in this instance. And I am not dissapointed that we disagree at all.. just behaviour.

To save blog inches, lets just leave it at that.

I wrote to Peter asking him and Dave to review Bing - the new Search offering by Microsoft. Perhaps you would like to contribute there as well. 

I thought it would be interesting to the the opinion of an Industry Supplier, someone from the Online Space, and perhaps you from an Agency level.

Robert - the turtle will never win any race. Unless of course they are a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle!. COWABUNGA!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glenn</p>
<p>I understand, and agree, that we disagree on the treatment of Dave in this instance. And I am not dissapointed that we disagree at all.. just behaviour.</p>
<p>To save blog inches, lets just leave it at that.</p>
<p>I wrote to Peter asking him and Dave to review Bing &#8211; the new Search offering by Microsoft. Perhaps you would like to contribute there as well. </p>
<p>I thought it would be interesting to the the opinion of an Industry Supplier, someone from the Online Space, and perhaps you from an Agency level.</p>
<p>Robert &#8211; the turtle will never win any race. Unless of course they are a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle!. COWABUNGA!</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Simeon</title>
		<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2009/05/why-you-think-advertising-costs-too-much-and-why-it-doesnt/#comment-5110</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Simeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.business2.com.au/?p=1068#comment-5110</guid>
		<description>There would be little point of a blog if everyone agreed! We have some great arguments (discussions) on mine - it is all about challenging the thought processes. Yes, we can be wrong and right but at the end of the day it is all about enlightenment. 

For example, Greg Vincent makes some great points identifying just how slow Domain and REA were to work with Twitter and Facebook where in all probability they believed that they were more a foe than friend. The online landscape is moving rapidly where again I agree with Gregs point &quot;it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There would be little point of a blog if everyone agreed! We have some great arguments (discussions) on mine &#8211; it is all about challenging the thought processes. Yes, we can be wrong and right but at the end of the day it is all about enlightenment. </p>
<p>For example, Greg Vincent makes some great points identifying just how slow Domain and REA were to work with Twitter and Facebook where in all probability they believed that they were more a foe than friend. The online landscape is moving rapidly where again I agree with Gregs point &#8220;it</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn Batten</title>
		<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2009/05/why-you-think-advertising-costs-too-much-and-why-it-doesnt/#comment-5109</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Batten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.business2.com.au/?p=1068#comment-5109</guid>
		<description>Paddy, 

Sorry you feel that way Paddy but I dont feel we were too hard at all. That&#039;s my opinion and you have yours.    I also didn&#039;t think your earlier comments  were directed specifically to me at all.  Just because I chose to answer that post you have taken it personal?   ummm..why?   I chose to explain why I brought the subject up again. That does not mean you or anybody has to agree with what I said or why I brought it up. It also does not make it right.. but nor does it make it wrong.  

Quite honestly if anybody is going to post your opinions on here either in articles like Dave and I or in the comments like all of us, you are going to find lots of people who dont agree with you. I understand that and appreciate it as much as the next person but I dont get nasty about it.  

If someone does not agree with me and I think its because I have no communicated my message clearly enough for them to understand I may choose to rephrase or restate my opinion or explain it in more details. Thats not defensive. IMHO thats opinionated certainly... but not defensive.  Because I have an opinion and I express that I also don&#039;t think I know it all.  Far from it... but I do have an opinion. 

For the record all my dealings with Dave have been very professional and I have personally found him a gentleman. I have nothing but respect for him on a business level but that does not mean I have to agree with what he says on behalf of he ex employer or himself.   When I wrote the article about the missing realestate.com.au mail he was a lot more open than I expected him to be.  

But he wrote the article on the subject and he cant remove his connection with it just because he has left the company. He asked for solutions and he has a direct and detailed history with my suggestion for the solution.  

I am not the only one on here or before to suggest that REA should provide more information on a per agency level rather than huge big numbers they do.  I am also not the only one to ask Dave a question or asked for information on the subjects at hand when he represented REA and never got that information.   

It sounds to me that your disappointment stems from the fact I did not agree with you. Thats likely to happen again, maybe not as often as I disagree with others on some subjects but we will all have to live with that. If you choose to take it personally and claim that I am being a know it all because I express that opinion... then understand that is just your OPINION and I don&#039;t think you know it all.. :)   

I won&#039;t take it personally.. hell I wont even get dissappointed, claim you know it all, ... or get all pooey, or pissed off or anything else that some have claimed over the past few years when I did not agree with them at certain times.   In short.... its part of the experience.. part of the job...   .. its what blogging is all about..  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paddy, </p>
<p>Sorry you feel that way Paddy but I dont feel we were too hard at all. That&#8217;s my opinion and you have yours.    I also didn&#8217;t think your earlier comments  were directed specifically to me at all.  Just because I chose to answer that post you have taken it personal?   ummm..why?   I chose to explain why I brought the subject up again. That does not mean you or anybody has to agree with what I said or why I brought it up. It also does not make it right.. but nor does it make it wrong.  </p>
<p>Quite honestly if anybody is going to post your opinions on here either in articles like Dave and I or in the comments like all of us, you are going to find lots of people who dont agree with you. I understand that and appreciate it as much as the next person but I dont get nasty about it.  </p>
<p>If someone does not agree with me and I think its because I have no communicated my message clearly enough for them to understand I may choose to rephrase or restate my opinion or explain it in more details. Thats not defensive. IMHO thats opinionated certainly&#8230; but not defensive.  Because I have an opinion and I express that I also don&#8217;t think I know it all.  Far from it&#8230; but I do have an opinion. </p>
<p>For the record all my dealings with Dave have been very professional and I have personally found him a gentleman. I have nothing but respect for him on a business level but that does not mean I have to agree with what he says on behalf of he ex employer or himself.   When I wrote the article about the missing realestate.com.au mail he was a lot more open than I expected him to be.  </p>
<p>But he wrote the article on the subject and he cant remove his connection with it just because he has left the company. He asked for solutions and he has a direct and detailed history with my suggestion for the solution.  </p>
<p>I am not the only one on here or before to suggest that REA should provide more information on a per agency level rather than huge big numbers they do.  I am also not the only one to ask Dave a question or asked for information on the subjects at hand when he represented REA and never got that information.   </p>
<p>It sounds to me that your disappointment stems from the fact I did not agree with you. Thats likely to happen again, maybe not as often as I disagree with others on some subjects but we will all have to live with that. If you choose to take it personally and claim that I am being a know it all because I express that opinion&#8230; then understand that is just your OPINION and I don&#8217;t think you know it all.. <img src='http://www.business2.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />    </p>
<p>I won&#8217;t take it personally.. hell I wont even get dissappointed, claim you know it all, &#8230; or get all pooey, or pissed off or anything else that some have claimed over the past few years when I did not agree with them at certain times.   In short&#8230;. its part of the experience.. part of the job&#8230;   .. its what blogging is all about..  <img src='http://www.business2.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Paddy</title>
		<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2009/05/why-you-think-advertising-costs-too-much-and-why-it-doesnt/#comment-5108</link>
		<dc:creator>Paddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.business2.com.au/?p=1068#comment-5108</guid>
		<description>Glenn,

I do find your comments in response to my open post to all of us (yes it was not directed at you, and no Business2.com.au does not link to Glennb.com.au/iknoweverythingjustaskme/butdonotquestionme )rather interesting and in contrast to your posts directed at Dave.

&quot;You can continue to ignore and sidestep all the questions asked of you like normal but that is not going to make it all go away.&quot;

Just one example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glenn,</p>
<p>I do find your comments in response to my open post to all of us (yes it was not directed at you, and no Business2.com.au does not link to Glennb.com.au/iknoweverythingjustaskme/butdonotquestionme )rather interesting and in contrast to your posts directed at Dave.</p>
<p>&#8220;You can continue to ignore and sidestep all the questions asked of you like normal but that is not going to make it all go away.&#8221;</p>
<p>Just one example.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Vincent</title>
		<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2009/05/why-you-think-advertising-costs-too-much-and-why-it-doesnt/#comment-5107</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Vincent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.business2.com.au/?p=1068#comment-5107</guid>
		<description>PS: Just to clarify, I meant REA spin about number of unique website visitors to REA each month, etc, etc  when I said &quot;( thank heavens I don</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS: Just to clarify, I meant REA spin about number of unique website visitors to REA each month, etc, etc  when I said &#8220;( thank heavens I don</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Vincent</title>
		<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2009/05/why-you-think-advertising-costs-too-much-and-why-it-doesnt/#comment-5106</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Vincent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.business2.com.au/?p=1068#comment-5106</guid>
		<description>Dave, Thanks for the link across to Bernice Ross&#039;s article, I don&#039;t think anyone here would disagree that online is where agents should focus their attention.

I&#039;m not an REA subscriber &amp; now that you work outside of REA I hope that you&#039;ll be able to get an even greater perception of what&#039;s really been happening within the industry. ( thank heavens I don&#039;t receive all that spin any more ). 

Dave, I was pleased to see that REA have starting using Twitter &amp; Facebook  profiling over the past few weeks, but to be honest Dave, with the hefty profits being made by REA, I&#039;m really surprised at how late they seem to be at embracing some of the fundamental changes taking place on the web. 

Perhaps there are too many people in there with the blinkers on &amp; committee meeting after committee meeting going around in circles. 

It appears that the meetings within REA are either about trying to find a way to get agents to pay more money or waiting for someone else to develop something innovative that the REA group can purchase.

I think REA need to keep in mind that the pecking order has changed &amp; it&#039;s no longer the big that eats the small in today&#039;s world, it&#039;s the fast that eats the slow.

REA seem to be sitting back, rather than being on the front foot with innovation. For example... since the Mumbai bombing &amp; the plane crashing into the Hudson River Twitter has become huge across the world.

But, even before those events real estate agents &amp; real estate related companies had been using Twitter over in the US for months &amp; months  beforehand. And yet...

Domain&#039;s first post on Twitter was 22nd Jan about &quot;The Summer Rental Squeeze... Who&#039;s to blame?&quot;

REA&#039;s first post on Twitter was 5th May about &quot;We&#039;re here to listen, advise and share discussions on all things property.&quot;

That&#039;s over 4 months later than Domain. That&#039;s pathetic. 

Both Domain &amp; REA have access to the people, the information &amp; the resources that some of us could only dream of having &amp; quite frankly these companies should have been some of the first to embrace Twitter &amp; Facebook, not the last. 

REA have simply become too big &amp; too slow to react. 

It&#039;s no wonder agents are now looking elsewhere for their innovative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, Thanks for the link across to Bernice Ross&#8217;s article, I don&#8217;t think anyone here would disagree that online is where agents should focus their attention.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not an REA subscriber &amp; now that you work outside of REA I hope that you&#8217;ll be able to get an even greater perception of what&#8217;s really been happening within the industry. ( thank heavens I don&#8217;t receive all that spin any more ). </p>
<p>Dave, I was pleased to see that REA have starting using Twitter &amp; Facebook  profiling over the past few weeks, but to be honest Dave, with the hefty profits being made by REA, I&#8217;m really surprised at how late they seem to be at embracing some of the fundamental changes taking place on the web. </p>
<p>Perhaps there are too many people in there with the blinkers on &amp; committee meeting after committee meeting going around in circles. </p>
<p>It appears that the meetings within REA are either about trying to find a way to get agents to pay more money or waiting for someone else to develop something innovative that the REA group can purchase.</p>
<p>I think REA need to keep in mind that the pecking order has changed &amp; it&#8217;s no longer the big that eats the small in today&#8217;s world, it&#8217;s the fast that eats the slow.</p>
<p>REA seem to be sitting back, rather than being on the front foot with innovation. For example&#8230; since the Mumbai bombing &amp; the plane crashing into the Hudson River Twitter has become huge across the world.</p>
<p>But, even before those events real estate agents &amp; real estate related companies had been using Twitter over in the US for months &amp; months  beforehand. And yet&#8230;</p>
<p>Domain&#8217;s first post on Twitter was 22nd Jan about &#8220;The Summer Rental Squeeze&#8230; Who&#8217;s to blame?&#8221;</p>
<p>REA&#8217;s first post on Twitter was 5th May about &#8220;We&#8217;re here to listen, advise and share discussions on all things property.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s over 4 months later than Domain. That&#8217;s pathetic. </p>
<p>Both Domain &amp; REA have access to the people, the information &amp; the resources that some of us could only dream of having &amp; quite frankly these companies should have been some of the first to embrace Twitter &amp; Facebook, not the last. </p>
<p>REA have simply become too big &amp; too slow to react. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s no wonder agents are now looking elsewhere for their innovative.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn Batten</title>
		<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2009/05/why-you-think-advertising-costs-too-much-and-why-it-doesnt/#comment-5105</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Batten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.business2.com.au/?p=1068#comment-5105</guid>
		<description>Paddy, 

I am fully aware he does not work at REA anymore. Had he continued there I would not have bothered recycling the questions again as he dodged them for long enough that  it was clear he was never going to answer them.  Although Dave declares his continuing connections with REA as far as I was concerned it tries to position Dave in the middle between the agent and REA looking for a solution to both positions. This is why I asked for the information again although the smiley should show I did still not expect him to provide anything.

Dave chose to write the article on this topic. He asked what people had for solutions to the problem.  Did you really think he expected only answers that he and his friends back at REA would find palatable.  

My answer has not changed and that is the justification at an agency level regarding price rises. Not even to each agency but to the average agent.  I have been asking for that for quite awhile, plus, as you pointed out... in this thread.  

The thing for REA to notice is just how many others are asking for the same thing.  Discounting our comments by implying they are always from the same people is not the right way to go especially since it was so wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paddy, </p>
<p>I am fully aware he does not work at REA anymore. Had he continued there I would not have bothered recycling the questions again as he dodged them for long enough that  it was clear he was never going to answer them.  Although Dave declares his continuing connections with REA as far as I was concerned it tries to position Dave in the middle between the agent and REA looking for a solution to both positions. This is why I asked for the information again although the smiley should show I did still not expect him to provide anything.</p>
<p>Dave chose to write the article on this topic. He asked what people had for solutions to the problem.  Did you really think he expected only answers that he and his friends back at REA would find palatable.  </p>
<p>My answer has not changed and that is the justification at an agency level regarding price rises. Not even to each agency but to the average agent.  I have been asking for that for quite awhile, plus, as you pointed out&#8230; in this thread.  </p>
<p>The thing for REA to notice is just how many others are asking for the same thing.  Discounting our comments by implying they are always from the same people is not the right way to go especially since it was so wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Paddy</title>
		<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2009/05/why-you-think-advertising-costs-too-much-and-why-it-doesnt/#comment-5104</link>
		<dc:creator>Paddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.business2.com.au/?p=1068#comment-5104</guid>
		<description>I do think that we all need to remember that Dave no longer works for REA, but is none the less passionate and knowledgeable about online advertising.

With this in mind, asking Dave to comment on his former employer is unfair, unprofessional (for both us to ask, and for him to comment), and generally not the &#039;done thing&#039;.

Dave asked the question, and some of us answered. 

But isn&#039;t it interesting.

Dave engages us on here, and he no longer works at REA.

Michael McNamara (formerly of APM and now donning the RPData badge) only makes comment to threads when he sees fit. Leaving many questions unanswered, in what could be interpreted as a contemptuous stance.

Where is the REA (official) representative on here? and for that matter, Domain, homehound et al.

Dave you should send an invoice to REA, RPData, domain et al .. for discussing the issues which they themselves have no backbone to make any form of engagement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do think that we all need to remember that Dave no longer works for REA, but is none the less passionate and knowledgeable about online advertising.</p>
<p>With this in mind, asking Dave to comment on his former employer is unfair, unprofessional (for both us to ask, and for him to comment), and generally not the &#8216;done thing&#8217;.</p>
<p>Dave asked the question, and some of us answered. </p>
<p>But isn&#8217;t it interesting.</p>
<p>Dave engages us on here, and he no longer works at REA.</p>
<p>Michael McNamara (formerly of APM and now donning the RPData badge) only makes comment to threads when he sees fit. Leaving many questions unanswered, in what could be interpreted as a contemptuous stance.</p>
<p>Where is the REA (official) representative on here? and for that matter, Domain, homehound et al.</p>
<p>Dave you should send an invoice to REA, RPData, domain et al .. for discussing the issues which they themselves have no backbone to make any form of engagement.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Simeon</title>
		<link>http://www.business2.com.au/2009/05/why-you-think-advertising-costs-too-much-and-why-it-doesnt/#comment-5103</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Simeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.business2.com.au/?p=1068#comment-5103</guid>
		<description>Dave ...... we have you cornered! Next option ..... plead the fifth :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave &#8230;&#8230; we have you cornered! Next option &#8230;.. plead the fifth <img src='http://www.business2.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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