National Industry Based Portal: Looks Like Finally Becoming a Reality

Throughout Australia, Real Estate Agents have been screaming out for a National Industry Based Real Estate Portal for years and while the real estate institutes had previously decided that they wanted to run state based portals seperately, only 2 institutes managed to achieved any significant success with their real estate portals, REIWA.com.au in WA and RealEstateView.com.au in VIC.

Thankfully, it now appears that almost every Real Estate Institute in Australia has decided to put their support behind establishing a National Industry Based Real Estate Portal throughout Australia called RealEstateView.com.au.

In numerous comments made on this site, Enzo Raimondo, CEO of the REIV stated,

“I have been involved with the REI’s for the last 14 years and I can honestly say that this the closest we have come to being in complete alignment on this issue. I have no doubt that all REI’s including the REIA are 100% committed to making this work not only with the portal but also including the collection of national sales data.

The combined membership of the REI’s is over 8000 RE offices so the potential is huge.”

“The Corporate Structure will need to be fair and equitable and take into account all the members needs.”

“Whilst I can’t comment on the proposed structure, I can advise that we are awaiting on one remaining State to come on board.”

“an Industry owned and operated Portal, is closer than a lot of people think, we have been working to our strategy which includes the REIA, State REI’s, Franchise groups and others and we have deliberately kept under the radar, however the success or otherwise of an industry owned portal rests entirely with the Agents across Australia.

The Agents have the clients, the content and they can drive the eyeballs, we have proven this in Melbourne and it’s time that they understood that around Australia. However they also need to understand you can’t compete with multi-billion dollar media companies by offering a free service.”

Enzo also said “if any Real Estate Office want’s to subscribe,they should email sales@realestateview.com.au”

There has been a significant groundswell of interest from agents about this latest news and having recently spoken to RealEstateView.com.au General Manager Petra Sprekos, it appears that a number of agents from NSW and QLD have already expressed interest in subscribing to the RealEstateView.com.au site.

The roll out of the RealEstateView.com.au site also coincides with the proposed collection of national sales data via PropertyData.com.au.

I’d be very interested to hear others thoughts on this important industry development.

Is there anything you would like to see included? Are there any suggestions you may have as to how this roll out could happen quicker or perhaps some improvements you feel RealEstateView.com.au could make?

PS: If you’d like to read the original comments from Enzo Raimondo, they were posted on my previous article Domain.com.au Agrees to Upload Over 1700 Private Sellers in One Go

Enzo Raimondo, Petra Sprekos, Realestateview, realestateview.com.au, reia, REIV

SEO For Real Estate
Listing Leads
Agentpoint Real estate

About Greg Vincent

Greg Vincent The Online Guy for Real Estate Professionals is a Speaker, Trainer and is a highly respected online strategist. As a real estate professional with Internet and Social Media nous, Greg Vincent presents the how-to on getting the most out of the internet and social media without the “geek speak”. His insights into on-line real estate marketing are sought throughout Australia and valued for cutting through the confusion that locks many out of gaining full value from the web. After 20 years as a real estate agent, Greg now has multiple web-based businesses and works with some of the best agents in Australia.

108 Responses to National Industry Based Portal: Looks Like Finally Becoming a Reality

  1. Craig May 26, 2010 at 1:02 pm #

    “Most people now look at offline/print media and then go online to see more photos, virtual tours, etc and then they

  2. Jim May 26, 2010 at 4:16 am #

    Thank goodness…. got my totoal support…! Jim

  3. James May 26, 2010 at 4:21 am #

    Good Luck to them, if only they really had the interests of the Industry at heart (and yes some do). For some it purely about revenue and there is a bigger picture that has not yet become apparent, give it time.

  4. Nicole May 26, 2010 at 4:24 am #

    FINALLY !! Well done REIV and realestateVIEW.com.au – what a useful tool. Very impressed

  5. Alistair Helm May 26, 2010 at 4:29 am #

    As CEO of the NZ industry owned portal Realestate.co.nz I can only offer my support for this move. NZ benefits from a strong and vibrant industry owned portal supported by more licensed agents than any other website – we currently have over 94% subscribing.

    On a personal note I know both Petra and Enzo and can say there are no better people to lead this initiative for the benefit of the Australian industry. They are both passionate and committed and I applaud the way they have garnered support at the state operations level in an inclusive manner.

    Alistair Helm
    CEO Realestate.co.nz

  6. Robert Simeon May 26, 2010 at 4:33 am #

    It would be a miracle and we all know that despite the long – odds it may very well happen. Naturally, we would support such a move.

  7. Chris May 26, 2010 at 4:37 am #

    A property data solution provided by the real estate agents who are actually generating the sales data – FINALLY sensibility has prevailed! How good’s that?

  8. Sal Espro May 26, 2010 at 4:40 am #

    Gee, I wish there was just one old newspaper that everyone went to on Saturday. The REIV mightn

  9. Sal Espro May 26, 2010 at 4:44 am #

    Alistair, is yours the number 1 portal in NZ? If not, what are the comparative UB’s between yours and it, please?
    I’m trying to reconcile whether Industry portals actually save agents and their clients time and money and increase leads in proportion to their members’ fees.

    Rgds,
    Sal

  10. Nick May 26, 2010 at 4:53 am #

    This is kind of a Business2 exclusive. Nice. 🙂

    This is probably a good time for a national portal to emerge. REA has stuffed up their redesign and people are looking elsewhere.

  11. Sal Espro May 26, 2010 at 4:58 am #

    Ps Alistair, I guess your portal has been around continuously since the mid 90’s hasn’t it. So it precedes all the others except Property.com.au, giving you dominant 1st mover advantage. Which means your situation isn’t really relevant to ours.

  12. Greg Vincent May 26, 2010 at 5:47 am #

    Sal, you raise an interesting point about an extra subscription fee and REA increasing their fees by 30%. It will be interesting to see if the agents re-think some of the REA additional services e-brochures, banners, etc and allocate this money over to a RealEstateView.com.au subscription?

    This could put a significant dent in their revenue.

    Nick, you’re right from a timing point of view, some agents who had banner advertising felt that they lost out in REA’s new site launch.

    It will be interesting to see how many agents rush to RealEstateView.com.au to try to secure the suburb banner advertising for their area.

  13. Peter Brewer May 26, 2010 at 6:36 am #

    Wow Greg, My head is still spinning after reading the previous hundred odd post comments and its lead into this new thread. I’m just going to get my head around this and I’ll be back tomorrow to add my two cents worth… How powerful would an industry led owned and managed portal be!!
    ……………………………………………………..
    I’ve just edited the next 300 words out… but I’ll be back soon…

  14. Shane Dale May 26, 2010 at 6:43 am #

    Gentlemen, with respect – a few points – the rumoured reconsiderations of REA revenues given to competitors is logical, but rarely materialises. Agents mostly dont care or are too busy to make strategic movements like this ( especially if it involves their own cash) – they tend to be reactive and do what they are forced to do. Sorry but its true, and I speak from experience.

    I understand that REIWA and Realestateview are subscription models – they cost money. Without a substantial media campaign to back them up – why would they seriously dent REA or domain? Until the REI sites become really important – most agents will ignore them or at least a significantly large portion of agents will not bother – REIWA has achieved this, but realestateview hasnt yet.

    Thus the consumer wont like them as they will not have the depth of content that REA or domain has. Domain may be vulnerable to this strategy and maybe REIV will replace domain but not REA. Consumers dont care – they simply want a decent interface with the most listings.

    If free sites like Myhome or Homehound struggle to get full agent support and cannot combine the industry as a whole, even with ownership options – then why will a paid model run by a small set of Victorian shareholders ( I understand there is a weighted ownership to the original members) make a success of it?

    In addition, its common industry opinion that the REIs of some states are quite slow and unable to behave in an entrepeneurial fashion – and drive the portal aspect etc of the industry with the required vigour to beat REA. I am not being disrespectful of those institutes as they do a great job of their core functions, but when you have more than one decision maker, its always difficult to be a risk taker and shaker – I am sure the directors there would agree.

    From my own perspective – myhome is free, guaranteed to be free, yet some groups deliberately reject loading all offices – why? Which is why I say logic is not always the main reason for success or failure in this space.

  15. Steve Koerber May 26, 2010 at 8:19 am #

    Playing devils advocate here…

    If you were a buyer desperately needing to buy a home in your favourite suburb would you check an industry portal daily or would you check a portal that had all the industry’s listings plus all the private sales?

    I suggest the consumer will drive the success or otherwise of this initiative. You may have a potential 8000 offices but a big percentage (most probably) will be unwilling to cut ties with the media owned portals. The whole internet space will be watered down and costs for individual offices will be higher. The REI’s may profit from the whole exercise but is that what this is all about? Perhaps it is?

    As mentioned above http://www.realestate.co.nz may have 94% of the industry subscribing, but before you get too excited about your new industry based portal you should do some careful research and see where the eyeballs are going in NZ.

    I’m a supporter of Alistair Helm (CEO realestate.co.nz above) and his very professional site but the truth is (as discussed with him on the phone earlier today) my listings are getting more eyeballs from both a media owned portal (www.trademe.co.nz) and my company portal (www.barfoot.co.nz).

    In conclusion, for the reasons outlined above I reckon there’s a strong chance a new Australian industry based portal will benefit REIs, but will be of limited value to agents and consumers.

    I hope this is helpful and gets you thinking whether you’re doing this for the right reasons – that is my intent.

  16. Glenn Rogers May 26, 2010 at 8:44 am #

    Steve,

    Who the hell wants to deal direct with a property owner when there is probably $1m plus involved, you would need to get a valuation, then deal with someone who thinks their house is worth twice the average in the street, no thanks not for me and not for a lot of others I bet.

  17. Greg Vincent May 26, 2010 at 9:28 am #

    Steve, TradeMe.co.nz is a very different style of competitor than what RealEstateView.com.au would be dealing with.

    eBay is such a huge site everywhere else in the world except for NZ. New Zealanders use TradeMe.co.nz to sell their pets, cars, furniture and property.

    Once you’ve got a concentration of eyeballs to a site like that in the volume that TradeMe.co.nz get then you are bound to get a lot more UB’s to your property listings but I’d expect that there would be a higher percentage of tyre kickers who went looking for a car, boat, furniture, etc and ended up checking out some properties at the same time. (People love looking at property).

    With regards to your franchise site providing more traffic, I think agents underestimate how much online traffic is generated from the offline/print media advertising campaigns.Add up all the money Barfoot & Thompson are spending every week in Print Media, Signboards, etc and you’re looking at millions of dollars worth of offline media driving traffic to the Barfoot & Thompson website.

    Steve, in Australia the property portals are dedicated property portals and if it happened that a significant % of listings stopped appearing on either of the 2 major property portals then they would start to loose eyeballs very quickly.

  18. Steve Koerber May 26, 2010 at 10:46 am #

    Glenn, real buyers who want a roof over their heads don’t care how they buy a house these days…as long as they get one. And let’s face it some of the best bargains are available via private sellers too aren’t they!

    Greg, yes trademe.co.nz had a captive audience at the start but the fact they are now the only site with “virtually all” properties for sale means they will keep the eyeballs as long as they don’t inflate their subscription costs too much. If you were living in Auckland and wanting a house here and you searched trademe every day & someone suggested you stop using trademe and use a portal with fewer listings you’d tell them to get lost. There has been a shift and most real buyers here seem to have slowly shifted over to trademe…I have cold hard viewing stats today to support these and shared them with Alistair today.

    I disagree with the intent of your point about print directing people to franchise sites. I suppose they do but my experience in the last 36 hours shows that I could probably do without print altogether. For example I listed 5 homes on Tuesday and there has so far been no print advertising at all (it gets published tomorrow). In the 36 hours since hitting websites, I’ve had 66 email enquiries from 3600 clicks on the homes from exposure on 3 websites. They’re all auctions, several buyers have been through them all and chances are I’ve already found the person that will buy each of them (though most will probably go through to auction).

    Typically these days I find that those who find homes from print advertising are more laid back and passive ‘sometime in the future buyers and sellers’. The serious buyers (generally speaking) are amongst those 3600 (which by the way equals 20 per hour per property) who have seen the homes online well before they hit the papers.

    I’m very much an outsider as you know, but I reckon your two main portals will cope with an industry competitor using; price competition, an already established strong brand and a greater selection of properties (hence the decisive moves seen to allow private sales to list).

    Have you considered that your new industry portal may in fact cause the powerful media companies to push private sales with renewed vigour and that perhaps the public is ready to more seriously investigate private selling as a real option? After-all don’t most consumers perceive that real estate fees are high for what you get?

    If that happened perhaps the new industry portal that is being designed with good intention to give some control back to the industry, may in fact harm it by indirectly causing a real shift in consumer attitudes (away from agents) driven and encouraged by the media?

    Consider if the industry portal does ok but fails to really take hold like you all think it will. What are the options then? Allow private sellers to list on that site too so that consumers get what “they” want? Mmmm.

  19. Greg Vincent May 26, 2010 at 12:55 pm #

    Steve, I know that you could do without print altogether in your area but if everyone in your network stopped you would see a huge drop in traffic to the Barfoot & Thompson site. Remove the signboards, window displays, leaflet drops, brochures, etc (all of your offline media featuring the Barfoot & Thompson website address on it) and the traffic would diminish significantly.

    Most people now look at offline/print media and then go online to see more photos, virtual tours, etc and then they’ll contact the agent.

    Private sellers have always been a part of the industry. The Private Sellers will continue to increase into the future which is all the more reason why agents need a strong industry based portal & national body to continue to remain relevant into the future.

    Also, within the comments of the previous article I said “I don

  20. Greg Vincent May 26, 2010 at 1:22 pm #

    Craig, you’d be quite surprised at how much traffic agents generate from their offline/print media campaigns up onto the Individual Property Websites.

  21. Ryan O'Grady May 26, 2010 at 9:41 pm #

    I think Shane raises a good point. At present many agencies are prepared to pay for 2 subscriptions not 3. Over the past 12 months I’ve witnessed 3 of my Victorian clients downgrade from 3 subscriptions to 2 subscriptions and all of them dropped Realestateview and kept Domain and REA.

    I’m not saying that this trend will continue as it could change. But if agencies are unwilling to support free portals like Homehound and Myhome then why would they pay more money to support another subscription based portal.

    Enzo, any idea on the planned fee structure for agencies (members and non members)?

  22. Nick May 26, 2010 at 10:42 pm #

    I’m curious about pricing as well. Will it be fair or greedy?

    If their plans are for national coverage, they could aggressively reduce their prices and that would please agents while still covering the bills.

    Why agents dont use HomeHound and MyHome if its right there and doesnt involve any work I dont know. More exposure is more exposure and if its free then its great.

    Greg Vincent yes print would create some website traffic but not that much.
    There are three demographics I see.
    1. The online for everything demographic – probably dont even touch a paper
    2. The offline demographic who use print nearly exclusively
    3. The in between who use both and look up print houses online.
    Bit hard to say without a survey, but #1 is definitely growing and there is roughly a fixed number of #2. Online is simply easier to remove the houses you arent interested in.

  23. Vic May 26, 2010 at 11:22 pm #

    I wish the “Industry Representatives”, the REI’s, would not double speak.

    We are an privately owned, privately funded niche market portal. We determined a niche existed through substantial surveying of the industry (individual real estate agents, Ceo’s of major franchise groups and some state real estate institutes), We also asked the buying public and also found that a huge number of searchers using keywords/phrases to look for the niche were unable to go quickly to a relavent site or to a site that could specifically filter those properties that the buyer was looking for. .
    The niche is in property and business situated on or near the waterways of Australia and http://www.watersidepropertysales.com.au evolved as a consequence.
    We also found that agents were prepared to support our niche portal on a paid subscription basis. However, we believed that real estate agents who put the time and capital into acquiring listings should not be penalized further by having to pay others to gain from their costs. Hence we chose a business model of free to list/pay to upgrade/third party advertising.
    Naturally the decision to go this model would ensure much greater content thereby giving us a better chance of greater exposure to the buying public. Agents would gain through highly targeted audiences.

    We found the keys to getting content from agents are:
    – developing a clear,fast and functional site
    – bringing relevance to our site by adhering to a strict policy of categorizing properties to lifestyle and affordabilty ie you want beachfront thats what you get, you can only afford a riverfront home. that’s what you get etc.
    – keeping our site exclusively for agent use
    – maintaining a professional SEO and SEM program
    and
    – partnering with Bulk uploaders

    THE ONLY BULK UP LOADER TO REJECT OUR APPLICATION TO RECEIVE CONTENT FEEDS IS realestateview.com.au. And their rejection was based on “POLICY”

    This what I don’t get-What benefits will agents get if their Industry Portal rejects on “POLICY” grounds, the opportunity for greater and more targeted exposure?
    Our site provides a niche that will help agents to sell and costs them nothing to subscribe to or list. It will enable them to present their most valuable listings for free thereby reducing costs to their vendor and increasing exposure for their listings.

    The major portal bulk uploaders, MDT and HOL support us and Real Estate view do not. I can only deduce, and hope, that the decision to reject our request for the feeds was made by a lower than executive level officer as it is this sort of decision making that will actually drive more portals to change their strategy by bringing Private Sales listings to their sites, to supplement their incomes.

  24. Greg Vincent May 26, 2010 at 11:28 pm #

    I think we would all agree that there are a lot of agents who don’t use the web as effectively as they should, and many need a lot of educating about what they should be doing and shouldn’t be doing to get the most out of their online marketing.

    Shane, I’m sure you’ll agree that there are often a number of blockages within an agency, if they don’t have a multi-uploading function then the person uploading the listings doesn’t want more workload. Lack of understanding from the Principal and/or salespeople and then there’s the young IT savvy rookie who comes into the business with some great ideas & concepts who is either quickly sent out into the streets to go doorknocking or put to work on the phones as a telemarketer so they can learn to do real estate the old-fashioned way.

    A National Industry Portal is going to take some work getting going. There needs to be a major mind shift but they seem to have the best shot at it right now than the industry has ever seen before.

    Ryan, I agree 2 portals is what most agents seem to be prepared to pay subs for. When PBL launched MyHome’s subscription based model as an agency we couldn’t see the point in paying the extra subscription, plus every other day we had a new portal come knocking on the door wanting us to upload listings. In the end I think agents got sick of it. I know I did at the time.

    Once the multi-loading started we would upload to pretty much everything we could.

    I think that if RealEstateView.com.au subscriptions can in some way be tied back to an REI membership plus access to the National Property Data then I think agents will see them as not just another portal but someone who can actually provide them with something of substance for their business.

  25. Nick May 26, 2010 at 11:50 pm #

    Vic thats a slightly concerning revelation.
    I would expect a national portal to let agents decide where their properties go to. Its a little bit of a conflict of interest otherwise.

    Enzo can you reveal what the policy is for clarification?
    Its good to have it in the clear.

  26. Shane Dale May 27, 2010 at 12:53 am #

    Like google – if a portal is free such as myhome – or homehound then there is little reason to not load as an agent – the extra profile is good, the effect of competition in the market againts the subscription portals is compelling and looks good in your listings presentation to vendors. All free. Extra enquiry is also a benefit – this varies depending on the area.

    If its a manual upload office – I can understand why its a hassle fair enough. Its up to the portal to show the effort is worthwhile – thats the challenge. Usually thats the very small offices anyhow, its really a minimal effort to manually upload a property – as a vendor I would expect my agent to do it and not be slack.

    The issue is – why would an agent pay fees during the start up phase of a new portal? Especially whent he end cost will probably be close to domain’s.

    My main concern is that these type of things usually dont succeed at the level they need to validate their fees. However during this painful process they try and exclude listings and data feeds from free portals such as myhome – thus also ruining an alternative strategy as they fumble with their own. if they ahve their members best interests at ehart – they should publish as freely as possible. Its a fact that the internet makes this necessary.

    As a consumer – why would I choose realestateview? if all those listings are also on REA?

    – at least myhome has a unique consumer benefit – its easy to find listings with great media – as we prioritise based on virtual tour – floorplans, which any educated person can see is a benefit to the consumer.

    I know those listings and media are also on REA etc – but its simply easier to find on myhome. Do a search on Tamworth to see what i mean at myhome. Its a shame we cant offer such strong consumer benefits nationally just yet.

  27. Sal Espro May 27, 2010 at 1:02 am #

    *Groan* Enzo hasn’t come back in to reassure agents that this isn’t just about the REI’s getting some more funds from members paying yet another portal fee! (Apart from making his star seem to shine brighter).
    Agents are not,/strong> going to turn-off their current leads (REA & Domain listings), so even with 100% of the agents listings consumers will still have no USP/reason to leave the leading portals!
    (Ps Why oh why doesn’t REView accept both REA and Domain XML uploading protocols?!)

    Experience has wearied him!

  28. Sal Espro May 27, 2010 at 1:06 am #

    *Groan* Enzo hasn

  29. Enzo Raimondo May 27, 2010 at 1:12 am #

    There have been a lot of good points raised in this article and in Greg’s previous one where this topic was first raised.

    Some points of clarification on Realestateview (REV):

    REV originally started as a State based portal and is currently a public unlisted company. REIV has 72% ownership and just over 100 estate agents in a number of states have the remaining 28%.

    The REIV increased it’s shareholding from 30%, just over 2 years ago because we believed that it had the potential but was not being run effectively. Since then we have dramatically increased content, traffic, UB’s, subscribers and branding mostly in Victoria. Increasingly agents are telling us that in many areas they receive more enquiries from REV than Domain.

    Our objective which has been successful in Victoria is to provide Estate agents with a low cost effective alternative to the major portals and enhance the offering with Data products and other tools for the profession.

    Pricing, REV is around 30% of REA and amongst other features includes Multiloading and Website powering. The data product and mapping product (PDOL) is $160/ pm and includes sales data for the whole of State.
    We are the largest provider of sales and rental data to estate agents in Victoria and over 75% of the 2000 REIV member offices subscribe.

    In response to those asking about price, yes we do provide lower cost products to members and we believe these products we have can easily be provided in each State.

    While the National Portal with the appropriate corporate structure is the agenda, it is my view that very soon data will be the main game and the dynamics will change.

    You will have noticed REA has an alliance with Rpdata and Fairfax owns APM.

    Glenn Rogers hit the nail on the head with his comments in Greg’s last article, put egos and politics aside and let the people who know what they are doing manage this process and it will be successful.

  30. Enzo Raimondo May 27, 2010 at 1:20 am #

    Hey Sal, I just commented, btw you sound remarkably like Jenman, care to identify yourself or do you just want to stay in your cave.

  31. Petra Sprekos May 27, 2010 at 1:58 am #

    Hi Vic & All

    Our policy is to take as many feeds into our portal as possible to make it easier for estate agents to list with us. In the history of realestateview.com.au we have not rejected any inbound feeds.

    Can you please call me on 0413 029 165 to discuss your situation further as I am unclear as to whether you are talking about an inbound or outbound feed to/from realestateview.com.au

    Regards
    Petra Sprekos
    General Manager – realestateview.com.au

  32. Glenn Rogers May 27, 2010 at 2:56 am #

    One point about the domain name http://www.realestateview.com.au is probably the way to go as it is already established but MORE IMPORTANTLY it has the key word [bold]realestate[/bold] in there.

    ummm vic http://www.watersidepropertysales.com.au has a Google PR of zero you have a problem there I think.

  33. Sal Espro May 27, 2010 at 3:34 am #

    Enzo, fyi, our family does have a number of ‘traditional’ RE offices that are concerned with servicing our client ‘farm’ (as the Yanks call them) as well and cost effectively as possible.
    I have been around a fair while now, longer than your tenure in SA or Vic, and am very wary of Industry-owned anythings generally driven by would-be Lions of business who generally have little real World commercial experience, especially with their own money.
    My experience is that REI’s would do well if they could focus on rules, codes of practice and training. The rest of us have to put our wallets where our mouths are which is why generally the free commercial market ‘out here’ does a pretty good job of sorting itself out!

    Anyway, that is all academic now as the cannon-fodder REI membership know that it is going to have to sit-back now and see what pans-out. However, I do know it is definitely going to cost our group significantly more for the foreseeable future. (BTW, how is the powerhouse EAC going in NSW? Is it still rolling in its funds of the halcyon 80’s and 90’s? If so, then perhaps you are onto something).

    Ps You shouldn’t tarnish your position with pedestrian efforts to discredit anyone who questions your ‘Right Way’ manifesto.

  34. Vic May 27, 2010 at 4:15 am #

    Hi Petra,

    Thanks for getting back to me and the worthwhile feedback you gave me on your policy.
    As you said to me you will post a comment re this policy, so at the risk of misquoting you I will not elaborate on your phone response.
    However, the main point I wanted to emphasise is that if realestateview was established for the benefit of Industry members, then why haven’t you internally researched that your member are looking to gain the most exposure they can for the least cost (a good business principle) and why ignore this paradigm shift to free to list sites. Also target marketers should be a key plank in agent marketing strategies and should be in yours.
    Again Petra, thanks for explaining you reasoning to me.

    Glen, we are a NEW portal and our agents are fundamentally our pilots helping to develop for functionality. Our national launch comes later this month supported by a significant SEM and ongoing SEO program.

    Even ahead of this launch we are ranking in our target areas of marinas and canals and rivers and lakes on page one of google and with waterside property sales we rank consistently on the front page. I don’t appreciate you publically commenting our rankings without more than a cursory glance at stats. I certainly wouldn’t do it on your site(s).

    We are a niche market site not an all things to all people site.

    Vic Del Vecchio

    Managing Director

    Waterside Property Sales Pty Ltd.

  35. Shane Dale May 27, 2010 at 4:16 am #

    Do you reject outbound feeds? if so to whom?

    Will you load to myhome.com.au if asked by members?

  36. Glenn Rogers May 27, 2010 at 4:36 am #

    vic – Google PR is public knowledge, no secrets there and I didn’t comment on your stats also it’s very unusual for a site NOT to come up first if you Google their domain name.

    “water side properties” only return a 148k of results, not a lot

    “water front properties” returns 1.4m results so thats the one people would be searching on and you don’t appear there.

    All this is for anyone to see so don’t think any secrets are being given away.

  37. Glenn Rogers May 27, 2010 at 4:37 am #

    I’m sure all that will improve over time, don’t worry about it.

  38. Vic May 27, 2010 at 5:07 am #

    Glen,
    Thanks for the interest and encouragement.

  39. David Crombie May 27, 2010 at 6:34 am #

    Both Shane and Sal raise some very good points which I don’t think need to be repeated, as a industry player in NSW I personally have long said that the industry needed its own site.

    There have been several attempts and none have really had any impact on the likes of REA and Domain. To large part this is has been due to the politics that are at play.

    If it works good luck, personally I question the motives of some of the REI’s and lets hope they have more luck here than at a national level with the REIA. From some recent articles in the Financial Review I suggest not all is good in this camp either.

    Now many agents wont care, but agents in each state need to think about who is really controlling the so called “Industry Portal”, and what their motives are to ensure that they don’t end up paying another subscription for a site that they don’t really need but feel they have to.

  40. John Carson May 27, 2010 at 6:57 am #

    Hi Sal,

    In response to your question about EAC. EAC is still here and travelling reasonable well. I’m not sure, being a Co-operative, that there was ever a period when it was “rollong in the funds” but what funds “rolled in” were/are utilised for the benefit of its members and the industry. In my view, unlike some other organisations directly and indirectly involved in our industry EAC has not forgotten its reason for being.

  41. Susan Realty May 27, 2010 at 9:46 am #

    I read with interest the positive comments and those negatives which I ascertain in most cases are based on self interest….and gentlemen enough name calling!
    Realestateview (REV) does benefit the industry members!
    And that is a good thing and therefore nationally will benefit industry members!
    Big picture > REV’s portal is user friendly and informative therefore encourages use by buyers (most importantly) , vendors, agents and property related industries.
    REV’s database will ultimately benefit all.
    And nationally once ‘that’ last State sees the light, makes a decision or stops playing politics or whatever.
    There are a number of published databases with little correlation to each other. One has to take into consideration the provider and make a judgement call. Back to Statistics 101?
    Ryan – I am a Vic agent who downgraded 3 subscriptions to 2 subscriptions – keeping REV and Domain – dropping REA.
    Enzo and Petra you have my 100% support.

  42. Greg Vincent May 27, 2010 at 10:22 am #

    John, thanks for joining in. I was only wondering earlier today how this announcement about a National Sales Data via PropertyData.com.au will affect some of the current data suppliers RP Data, APM, Price Finder, Red Square and their monthly agent subscriptions.

    I noticed that PriceFinder have only recently appeared on the REIWA site whereas EAC/Red Square were part of the REINSW’s RealEstateWorld.com.au, weren’t they?

    Reading between the lines in your comment, “In my view, unlike some other organisations directly and indirectly involved in our industry EAC has not forgotten its reason for being”, it doesn’t sound like EAC/Red Square are going to be involved. Is that the case?

    From what I hear PriceFinder have made some inroads on RP Data in the past 12 months and I don’t think agents will want to run 2 seperate Property Data systems.

    It would make sense that one of the current data providers (not linked to the major portals) joins in to not only provide a more comprehensive solution, but also reduce the overall cost to agents (avoiding subscription duplication could increase agency take up very quickly).

    From what’s recently happened on the REIWA site, I’m starting to wonder, could PriceFinder (PDS Live) be forming a part of the solution too or would that just be a coincidence?

  43. Charlie May 27, 2010 at 12:18 pm #

    Probably the last remaining national portal that could eventuate is now seeing the light of day – the Institutes getting together – very glad to see the day arrive, and of course personally now I am at REIWA.com, really looking forward to being part of this move. Best wishes Enzo and Petra, and may the industry all across the land get behind you. I know the West is there.

    Niche portals will survive if they work their niche well (I lived this myself these past 11 years) – stick to what you do best, look after your clients – you will have a role. No doubt Google real estate will have more and more impact over the next few years; and probably something no one has even heard of yet will be a major force in the years ahead.

    It’s all good.

  44. Greg Vincent May 27, 2010 at 12:25 pm #

    Charlie by the look of it the merger between your Aussiehome site and REIWA couldn’t have been better timed. Congratulations.

    Behind the scenes I’ve been getting a lot of positive response from agents.

  45. Glenn Batten May 27, 2010 at 10:10 pm #

    Just like many industries and even sporting teams, the pressure to remain number 1 will be tough. Realestate.com.au will have to fight off many challanges to its position.

    Until Enzo decided to announce that the REI’s are getting close I would never have considered them to be able to launch a credible challenge.

    I am excited by the prospect but concerned that even that it has gone so far it will be hampered by the same issues of the past. The REA’s constant clawing for an ever increasing share of wallet from agents is starting to get out of hand. I have been told that the new Premier Property option which is in effect a Super Feature Property is $2000 per month.

    An REI portal can be a profitable business and provide the institutes with a nother income stream but they need to keep it fair. They can do more for the industry by saving us from some of the crazy price rises that we being subjected to. Agents will not put up with money grabbing from their institutes which is coming across loud and clear in some of the comments.

  46. Glenn Rogers May 27, 2010 at 10:30 pm #

    Glenn B – I’ve seen a lot of comments like this and I don’t agree – the Institutes are there FOR the agents not to make profits in their own right that the agents will never see.

    Any profit made surely goes back to benefit the agents in one way or another, I don’t see Enzo driving a Bugatti Veyron.

    The ultimate aim of a National Portal run by the combined Institutes is to CONTAIN costs for the agents, not give it away for nothing, the portal would fail for lack of funds to run and promote it properly, but they , in theory, wont be putting huge profits into the hands of third parties and the agents will not be held to ransom because thay cant do without one or 2 players who’s sole aim is to charge as much as the market can stand.

  47. Glenn Rogers May 27, 2010 at 10:53 pm #

    AND might I say this that the National Portal need not necessarily be top of the search results and beat REA or Domain….. the aim should be to get close enough to provide a CREDIBLE ALTERNATIVE that agents and their clients can use with confidence if they decide to opt out of the REA and Domain arena.

  48. Craig May 28, 2010 at 9:19 am #

    I have done a lot of work with Adsense on sites in the past. Unless you are generating mega traffic (500k+ uniques per day) it is unlikely to generate enough money to support more than 2 or 3 employees. Direct advertising can be better but I doubt an advertising only model will work.

  49. Peter Farrell May 28, 2010 at 12:07 am #

    REIV
    I sometimes write articles on this site.
    I own and operate http://www.mohbe.com I have sat in the office of the REIV and asked that they add an xml feed to our mobile phone platform. The price they asked to do this for every agent would have crippled the business. I will setup any agent who wants to subscribe to mohbe for free. I would also like agents to ask Realestateview to add us in their feed. Type this in your mobile browser mohbe.com/1755 to see a sample. This is a unique platform for mobile real estate. Each property has its own unique address and all links are live back to the agent. There are up to 26 images and a Google map. The mobile site can be optimised to suit the agents colurs and they can use their own web address.

  50. John Carson May 28, 2010 at 12:30 am #

    Greg,

    EAC will continue to provide its goods and services, including Red Square, to real estate offices/practitioners that wish to take up our offerings. EAC has always maintained that its reason for being has been to provide cost effective goods and services to our members/subscribers in order that they remain competitive in their individual markets.

    Being a Co-operative, EAC is not driven by the same profit motive as are many third party providers who have a need to satisfy the wants of investor shareholders. Accordingly EAC is in a position to provide products at far more reasonable prices.

    As to the question of whether EAC/Red Square are going to be involved

  51. Sal Espro May 28, 2010 at 12:51 am #

    Now we’re getting some REAL info! 🙂

  52. Vic May 28, 2010 at 1:50 am #

    John,

    A well reasoned, refreshing and enlightening commentary.

  53. Glenn Batten May 28, 2010 at 2:08 am #

    Glenn Rogers,

    Where does it say that the only income that an institute can operate on is subscriptions?

    Where does it say that the only income an REI portal can make is through its agent subscriptions?

    Where does it say that an REI initiative cannot create a profit? Is there something in the institutes charter that says that or is that just your opinion?

    A non-profit organisation runs profitable things all the time. I said the portal can be a profitable business not the institutes themselves. Of course any profits created by the portal would flow back to the benefit of the members.

    I for one would not expect the institute to run a portal without making an effective profit. Not a corporate “Super Profit” (such a trendy term these days) to support executive benefits and bonuses or a massive sales team on the ground.

    I would expect that profit to be run on either a nil or a minimal subscription basis to members and that a major part of the income generated be through an advertising system.

    If you can build a system so that local advertisers (building inspectors, finance brokers, insurance etc etc) can place ads on local properties. We have one example where a particular agent has recently achieved a massive advertising deal for a local finance broker to be displayed on each of their properties. It’s not my position to say how much, but I personally did not think that was possible. If you can apply that sort of advertising model even at a fraction of those rates then it may not even be needed for a subscription by agents anyway.

  54. Greg Vincent May 28, 2010 at 2:11 am #

    John, thanks for explaining the situation, you’ve provided a great insight into some of what goes on behind the scenes. Sometimes these things happen in business and doors open that you may have never previously considered?

    Even though I think that the idea of a National Industry Based Portal is going to be a great thing for the Australian real estate industry, I will always believe that agents and our industry will be so much better off if there is strong competition within all areas of agency practice.

    Just as AussieHome has recently merged with REIWA, is there an opportunity for EAC/RedSquare to perhaps link in with MyHome or HomeHound?

    I don’t know the internal workings of each of these companies but I’m just throwing the idea out there.

  55. Glenn Rogers May 28, 2010 at 2:32 am #

    Glenn B – I didn’t say that it (the portal) couldn’t make a profit I said any profit would go back to the agents via the Institute in one form or another.

    I got the impression from a couple of posts that they were wary of the Institute trying to profit from the exercise and that was their motive for doing it.

    I don’t think you can run a portal on a nil or minimal subscription basis by trying to get revenue from 3rd party advertisers, that’s a recipe for disaster it costs plenty to keep a portal running and promoted properly.

    The subs might be a bit less than the majors but the important thing is they have a portal of their own as a viable alternative to the majors should they ever decide to go that way.

  56. Enzo Raimondo May 28, 2010 at 3:17 am #

    Charlie great to hear from you and congratulations on joining REIWA.com

    Greg another top article which has created a lot of interest and drawn out some divided opinions albeit mostly supportive which is great to see.
    I accept that not everyone will agree or support this initiative and I don’t have any problem with that.

    But what amazes me, is the small number of detractors who can’t help themselves and ultimately expose their position of self interest to railroad the debate.

    I can just imagine Salespro, or whatever he likes to hide behind, salivating at the mouth when he read John Carson’s comments.

    Some gratutious advice for them, the train has left the station and you have missed it, no matter how much you complain.

  57. James May 28, 2010 at 4:24 am #

    Enzo, your response above is not unexpected. The question that begs though is who is the train driver, what is the ultimate destination of the train, how much is the fare and for what level of seat?

    I don’t expect an answer but I think the proof will be in the result and we wont know that until the train actually leaves the station and you see exactly how many of the agents buy a ticket.

    Enjoy the journey!

  58. Elizabeth May 28, 2010 at 4:49 am #

    “The train has left the station and you have missed it”

    But isn’t this the case with REA, and RPData?

    What train are you talking about? Or are you so used to Connex on time service delivery?

    Lets all accept that competition is good. Competition is needed. And, innovation once again needs to be at the forefront for the Australian property marketing scene.

    Some interesting things from the above, and history.

    Enzo says they are close. So not there yet. History and entries above tell us there is politics, so lets get past the last hurdle before we all get excited about the industry portal.

    What % of market share does realestateworld have in Victoria? (Just from a portal perspective.) If it is not number one, or has a winning formula, then is it ready to provide a national solution? What is the planed budget for marketing? What syndicate portal relationships will drive awareness and traffic?

    Realestateview.com.au is user friendly? Subjective. I personally think it is very 2004. But then again i am younger than some.

    Is the portal the game? or the marketed solution to the industry for the real game for REIV, and that is data? (REISA still have PDOL, other institutes have tried it and binned it)

    If the real game is data, then I find it interesting that REIV has in the past paid REA (and perhaps others) to get a data feed of listings from their site.. but REIV now thinks it is better to get it from agents… and make the agents pay for it. (you would think that prices would come WAY DOWN if the cost of getting data turned out to be a profitable exercise).

    The Agents pay twice model is still in effect… but that is ok… it is industry owned.

    Which industry?

    Is everyone a member who benefits? or just a select few, or those within a certain geographic patch? So the profits go to who? your competition?

    There really is nothing new here. An old model, with old motives, and still we are close, but no cigar.

    No mention of social networking strategy, no smart phone products, not even a new user interface with new tools for a tired website.

    Just seems like another middle man positioning themselves as part of the industry, in order to gain favour.

    A few more dabs of Sambuca in your coffee Enzo.

  59. Sal Espro May 28, 2010 at 4:54 am #

    Enzo,

    Of course, we would all like to pay less for our advertising/marketing and given you have begun on this national trek, let’s hope you achieve that for all members.
    You obviously must not have read my profile and interest in all of this from an agency perspective. My last comment was that we will maintain the major sources of our leads which are our REA and Domain listings. REView is now going to pressure us into listing there as well, which will cost us significantly more than our current costs – Even tho’ we also HATE the REA costs and the way they are screwing the Industry!!

    And again, I really think you should stop lowering your position as an REI CEO by participating in purile abuse of anyone (including members like us!) who seems to disagree with your views and who thoroughly dislikes people without their own dollars in the game telling others what they should or should not do!!

  60. Glenn Batten May 28, 2010 at 5:26 am #

    Glenn Rogers

    I agree with you on most things however I just think an advertising model can be found that would generate significant income. Combine that with a lean mean back office system without the huge overheads of the top 2 portals and I reckon you can run it on a minimal or ideally a nil input by agents.

    The key is the advertising model. As I said there is an excellent proof of concept that says that local advertisers will pay a premium if they can target their ads to local buyers only. Nobody has done this yet. All the portals want the big national advertisers that pay very little.

    Look at Adwords as the perfect example. Google allows advertisers to target on keywords and general geographic targetting to a city or state level. Theses guys are paying several dollars per click and for some extreme examples over $20 per click.

    A real estate portal can allow ever better geographic targeting down to a suburb level. You can also do property type targeting so a land ad might display a price for a soil test and an investment property might display an ad for a quantity surveyors depreciation schedule.

    This sort of advertising model opens up the door to many more potential advertisers being able to use the system.

  61. Nick May 28, 2010 at 5:36 am #

    Actually RealEstate.com.au at least has the capability to target ads based on suburb, postcode, section of a city, state, price range, and even what agent has the property.

  62. Glenn Rogers May 28, 2010 at 6:32 am #

    Glenn B – I used to be all enthusiastic about third party ads too, even had a major builder put a building estimates app on the web site, but it doesn’t add up to much at the end of the day.

    Do you know what the majors spend on ad words ? I forget the exact figure but It’s mind boggling.

    You need subs, I know it’s going to be hard initially if you pay others as well but if you want to have a viable national portal you will need to fund it, it might also keep the majors from hiking prices too much.

  63. Glenn Batten May 28, 2010 at 7:33 am #

    Nick..

    They have data to do that, but the ability to do it right now?? If I was a finance broker operating in the Nerang and Carrara area, your saying REA would allow me to advertise on just properties in those suburbs?

    Glenn Rogers
    It can be done. I have seen a real world example of integrating localised advertising in a real estate site that is operating right now on an agents website in Sydney where the agent is getting an amazing monthly amount to host the ads.

    Just take a 1/10th of what he receiving, extrapolate that out over just 1000 core suburbs and you have around a million dollars per month. That’s just 1/10th of what he is getting for one business type in just 1000 suburbs.

    Just because nobody is doing it now does not mean that it cant be done. It’s not easy but it can be done. It needs to follow the Google adwords style in that the advertisers do all the work setting it up.. No expensive salespeople on the ground. It has to allow detailed targeting, be auctioned based so higher competition creates higher prices in more popular suburbs, it has to complement the information on the page and a the advertisers must be able to work out a ROI on their investment. Ideally it should be click based which means it’s totally performance orientated.

  64. Glenn Rogers May 28, 2010 at 8:08 am #

    Nice idea BUT if people were to do that why not just take Google Ad Words plus the market for people who want to be seen on a real estate web site is limited, I like your enthusiasm but if it were feasible REA would have already done it, they find it hard enough to get agents let alone enough third part advertisers to make a difference, it could be a handy supplement however.

  65. Shane Dale May 28, 2010 at 8:35 am #

    No answer yet from realestateview – loading to myhome from members who wish it or accepting a feed from our members?

  66. Nick May 28, 2010 at 12:28 pm #

    Glenn B, check this url for a header ad at the top of a property page, for a property in Cranbourne 3977 in Victoria priced $320k by the agent with the username XRWXJD (Ray White hence starting with XRW).

    http://ad.au.doubleclick.net/adi/rea.buy/details/sales/Vic/south_east_melbourne;sect=details;state=Vic;region=south_east_melbourne;pcode=3977;sub=cranbourne;price=300k_400k;agent=XRWXJD;type=sales;pos=header

    Notice how all those elements are being sent to Doubleclick? They can filter based on any of those factors, and they are probably keeping stats on clickthrough rates with those factors as well.
    Whether they will let you advertise with those factors probably depends on the size of your wallet.

    Shane Dale I too am also interested in the official policy.
    Enzo or Petra could you shed some light on REV’s outgoing feed policy?

  67. Vic May 28, 2010 at 10:13 pm #

    Petra,
    In concluding our phone conversation you told me you would clarify your policy, on outward feeds, with a posting on this blog.

    The issue I raised still needs addressing that is: why doesn’t realestate view facillitate a choice, for agents to select where their property listings are advertised?

    If you really have the interests of your subscribers (the members of the REIs) at heart, why won’t you give them the opportunity to choose to list with free to list portals? The cost to you will be minimal, the gains for your members significant. And you will gain a significant amout of goodwill in the process.

    Having said this I believe that giving the industry it’s own dedicated site has strong merit but to regurgitate old models with limited new inovation does not engender confidence.

  68. Vic May 28, 2010 at 10:26 pm #

    I must add that policy changes are not easy when you need to account to half a dozen REI boards and CEO’s and all the other beaurocratic interests and barriers that you need to negotiate. However, if you and Enzo have the will, the opportunity now exists for some strong leadership to take this model beyond a 2004 paradigm.

    Can I suggest a poll/survey of your members on this issue would be a good starter.

  69. Glenn Rogers May 28, 2010 at 10:45 pm #

    vic – re the poll, I always found it best just to do what’s right rather than ask the agents what they want as most of the time they haven’t a clue.

    You already know they want the phone to ring and that’s all you need to know.

  70. Vic May 28, 2010 at 11:17 pm #

    Glen,

    I agree. You would do this, so would I. We have our money in the business and we are the policy and decision makers.

    Enzo and Petra, need to account to a multitude of people before they can “change” policy. It is therefore wise for them to go to these people with a convincing caseie “X number of members have told me that they want more exposure for no extra cost…put me on some free portal sites”.

    Maybe the delay in Petra’s response/elaboration, indicates that she and Enzo are in fact reconsidering the policy. This would be a good thing.

  71. Glenn Rogers May 29, 2010 at 12:32 am #

    Enzo and Petra need to be free of those contraints, just put the site together, put the model in place then ask for any objections and tell them why they’re invalid.

    The only input they should have is to complain if the phone isn’t ringing after the site’s fully indexed and running, if it’s done tight the phone will be ringing and they’ll be too busy selling to complain about anything.

  72. Glenn Rogers May 29, 2010 at 12:33 am #

    If it’s done RIGHT

    (no edit button in this app)

  73. Vic May 29, 2010 at 12:48 am #

    Tight is also appropriate. A tight pop band or football team is one operating in perfect sync.

  74. PaulD May 29, 2010 at 2:06 am #

    So the train has left the station. Enzo was one of the people who helped spear the previous attempt by the REIA to create an industry owned portal. The deals have been done and now it’s all ok, because he says so. There a lot of people holding their breaths about the venture, but not because of the concept, but because of the train driver. The response to John Carson, and others showed real class, a bit like a rat with a gold tooth. The thing that remains is to see how many passengers the train picks up, and whether it runs out of fuel or not.

    By the way Enzo please explain (if you can) in your own words the following passage “you” wrote a couple of days ago in one of “your” posts on this blog

    “Realestateview is very optimised. The current Realestateview homepage html size is just 9.7k, with other code in js and css files which only need to be loaded/cached once per user session. I just checked and this is the lowest and fastest of all the major portals.”

  75. Glenn Rogers May 29, 2010 at 3:16 am #

    Yeah I thought about that Vic, but decided to correct it anyway.

  76. Petra Sprekos May 30, 2010 at 10:44 am #

    Vic and Shane

    Given that we are launching in NSW in a matter of days, you would appreciate that I have been very busy with the final preparations.

    Firstly, no I don’t have to consult with Enzo or the rest if the REI Board, we are run quite separately to the REI being a completely separate business. Note for those of you who don’t know Enzo is also a Director of realestateview.com.au but again these decisions are purely operational and don’t require board consultation.

    Our Policy:

    1) Inbound feeds

  77. Elizabeth May 30, 2010 at 11:39 am #

    Wasn’t it WA that tried PDOL?

    Regarding my comment about, now historical, costs of obtaining data from portals, and now through realestateview.com.au you will be getting this information from agents for free (your costs are free, agents still paying), what is the future for pricing?

    Can we expect cost reductions? Why is it that agents are still paying twice for their data?

    If these are the only things I have incorrect, then are you acknowledging that it is not possible for every agent to be a shareholder, and therefore, some agents will be providing a financial benefit to their competitors?

    What are your smart phone (iphone) and social media strategies to drive traffic? When can we expect a new site with the content consumers are looking for?

    Thank you for clarifying the corporate structures of REIV and realestateview.com.au, but I am sure that you will agree that everyone may start assuming that corporate structures are not necessarily adhered to given that you have previously been a direct report to Enzo within REIV.

  78. Vic May 30, 2010 at 9:22 pm #

    Thanks Petra,

    Great to hear that the tiger has teeth and thank you for the response.
    I am au fait with the difference between a full blown portal and a multi loader service. You do have a multi loader service, even if it only loads to three portals.

    I will definitely be back to you in the near future. Thank you for your offer.

    In the meantime if you can continue to keep separate the politics and your operational independence you will suceed.

    I wish you all the best in your quest to give your members/subscribers the service they are demanding at the very lowest cost possible.

    Good luck and keep swinging.

  79. Peter Farrell May 30, 2010 at 10:50 pm #

    Petra
    You may recall i sat in your office and asked that you add my http://www.mohbe.com feed to your site. This is a unique product that is available to all Australian Real Agents for free. That proposal is still open to you. Do you agree that agents should have a mobile phone pressence? If so, then this would be a great initiative by you. My line is open to you 0400 650 680

  80. Sal Espro May 31, 2010 at 12:43 am #

    Hi Petra,

    Given Enzo (and you) want members to pay extra to support this national portal move, would you please answer the following:
    You just said that “realestateview.com.au is a portal and provides multi loading services to the major portals free of charge for its subscribers.”
    However, you then said, “Note agents are currently paying an average of $100 for this service that we currently include in our subscription.”

    1. Is that $100p.a or pmth and is it the total portal fee or just the uploading allocation?
    2. How can something be free if agents are paying for it?!

    (em>(Enzo, I’d appreciate you not responding as I’m tired of your smarmy rudeness to members who are just attempting to work-out where they fit in their REI’s ‘New Way’!)

  81. Nick May 31, 2010 at 12:57 am #

    Has anyone else noticed a massive Google Adwords advertising campaign by RealEstateView? Keep a eye out for it. There must be a lot of money going in to it.

    Sal they were trying to say that they do it for free, and elsewhere they pay $100/month.

  82. Glenn Rogers May 31, 2010 at 1:34 am #

    No offense Sal but it looks to me like you’re the rude one, go sell something you’ll feel better.

  83. Sal Espro May 31, 2010 at 2:02 am #

    Thanx Nic.
    But it’s not free if it’s in the subs, is it? BTW, what is the going REV subs pmth? It was $350pmth wasn’t it?

    Glenn, “No offense” ??! *L* I honestly wasn’t being rude but am sick of Enzo sniping at comments that don’t agree with his World view, especially when 1. they are member-based and 2. he is downgrade the standing of the REI’s with such ‘small’ behaviour!
    PsOff to another presentation right now!

  84. Greg Vincent May 31, 2010 at 2:47 am #

    “with such

  85. Shane Dale May 31, 2010 at 4:38 am #

    Petra if you already load to REA then most portals also accept that same format – presumably this can be a simple option at no charge for members to also load to myhome. Can you confirm this? If a free portal such as myhome does better than yours – either in some areas or is additional advertising – then presumably that is in the member’s best interests?

    The reason i ask here is to see if REview will actually do this or just give lip service to the concept. Previously – they clearly rejected it, I am not sure if there is a real change on this point yet.

    As I have previously run a loader for 10 years and we also currently receive over 50 loaders, its a very straightforward simple thing to do. Whom should I address my request to?

    If this is too difficult for your team, you are welcome to come and I can contract the same service for you at a far reduced cost.

  86. Damien McDonald May 31, 2010 at 5:17 am #

    Very interesting reading above in regards to REIV, REINSW and the pending National Portal. For another batch of equally interesting opinions on this enterprise, read the comments on the Property Portal Watch site. In particular, Stephen Wilks honest overview. (Link Below)

    http://www1.propertyportalwatch.com/2010/05/industry-to-challenge-aus-portals/

  87. Enzo Raimondo May 31, 2010 at 5:51 am #

    Sal, irrespective of your comments and even though I am wasting two minutes of my valuable time on this, I thought your last post required a final response.

    If you are a member as you have claimed on numerous occasions and which I seriously doubt. You would be aware, like the other 7000+ individual members, that I am always available and easily contacted and I extend an invitation for you to do so and advise exactly what your concerns are.

    Like many people, I am a member of a number of professional associations and if I had an issue with the CEO of any of those associations, I would not behave in such an unprofessional manner as you have consistently demonstrated.

    Business2 is an excellent forum for people to contribute to the debate and share ideas on a range of topics whether one agrees or disagrees with the comments made.

    Judging by your many posts on this and other topics you don’t have any capacity or desire to do either.

    In fact if you want to see examples of “rude”, “pedestrian” and “swarmy” comments, I refer to your comments on Peter Fletchers article of the 24th of December 2009

    I will await your contact, but doubt you will take up my invitation.

  88. James May 31, 2010 at 6:18 am #

    Hi Greg,

    In relation to

    “Late last week and earlier today, I have been speaking with a number of franchise groups & the concept of a National Industry Based Portal appears to be getting some good support from the major networks.”

    What happened to Homehound and then MyHome when they tried a similar thing. Politics unfortunately will come into play at some point in time.

    Will they get the franchises on by offering deals, and if so this fair to all those other agents that will pay full fare that are also part of the industry the “Industry Site” is trying to assist?

  89. Elizabeth May 31, 2010 at 6:41 am #

    Enzo,

    It looks like you have spent 4 minutes of your valuable time through your last two posts acting like a school bully in squashing opposing comments, rather than progressing the conversation, and answering numerous questions we all have about your touted ‘industry site’.

    Let me summarise my questions:

    1. What is your smart phone strategy for REV? do you have one?
    2. What online partnerships are you cultivating to drive traffic to REV?
    3. What is your exact market position in Victoria, and are your skills in providing solutions to agents and consumers in Victoria instantly transportable to the rest of Australia?
    4. Ownership. Why should we list with a website which provides benefit to our competitors? When will the website be upgraded with a more modern look and tools for consumers?
    5. Ownership. Do you agree that Domain and REA both provide agents with a more equal playing field in relation to ownership? (We can become shareholders in Fairfax or REA via the stock market)
    6. Do you agree that over the last 3 years, an agent who took out a subscription to REA and also bought shares in the company, received far more leads, and greater return on investment, than what REV did?

    I just want you to supply a better solution that is fair for everyone in the industry.

    lets get out from behind the 2002 emotive mantra of ‘keep the bastards honest’ and ‘industry site’… and lets talk about the product you are pushing and the needs of the industry.

    Help me understand how your solution meets all our best interests.

    Thank you

  90. Matt May 31, 2010 at 7:12 am #

    Interestingly, realestateview seems to be having technical issues at the moment.

    Go to the home page and type in a WA suburb (e.g. Innaloo) and click Search – you get a plain text page?

  91. Sal Espro May 31, 2010 at 11:43 am #

    Enzo,
    I will state again, I am hopeful that this member-only portal works, especially as members funds are going to be needed to support it above and beyond the existing leading lead-generators, whom I would rather not support! There are however, some issues that do need addressing from some people who taken time to think about the broader issues as they affect there hip-pockets more directly than yours!

    PsSticks and stones…Do you think Simon Baker would stoop to this level?!

  92. Glenn Batten May 31, 2010 at 9:27 pm #
  93. Greg Vincent June 1, 2010 at 3:52 am #

    Shane, could you explain the perceived benefits of RealEstateView feeding out to MyHome at this stage of their launch.

    I can’t see any reason why they would want to consider doing feeds out at this point in time (other than honouring their current agreement with REA & Domain) and if so, I’d be interested to hear why you believe it should be such a priority.

    I’d have thought getting listings onto their site and generating eyeballs to their site would be their top priority, but maybe you might have a different idea and could shed some light on the situation. (especially having played a role in the rise,fall and rebirth of MyHome.)

  94. Greg Vincent June 1, 2010 at 4:07 am #

    PS: Sorry Shane, I may have worded that incorrectly and could be taken the wrong way.

    I appreciate that you didn’t play a part in the fall of MyHome (that was PBL) but I’m sure you may have been privy to some of the fall-out and mistakes that happened within MyHome’s PBL launch which REV may be able to learn from.

  95. Sal Espro June 1, 2010 at 4:59 am #

    Petra,
    if we were to sign-up with REV then we would be considering how it might eventually 1. get us more business and 2. save us some time and $.

    I doubt 1. will happen to any significant degree in the foreseeable future which means 2. might be the lever to get us. This could occur if we were to drop our existing Website host/CMS/uploader and go with REV at the same cost/less than the existing uploader. (What are the REV costs?) We would then get the REV portal at no extra charge! This would be feasible if we were able to upload to a variety of external destinations/portals.
    (Should I send the consultancy invoice to you Enzo? *L* C’mon mate, lighten-up! 🙂

  96. Nick June 1, 2010 at 5:20 am #

    Greg, some people use Real Estate View as their portal pushers, just like the scenario that Sal just gave. In that case its in MyHome’s best interests to get a feed so those people could send their properties across.

  97. Greg Vincent June 1, 2010 at 5:47 am #

    Nick, I’m just trying to work out whether being seen as a portal pusher would be a deal clincher into securing more subscriptions or not? And whether it would actually have a detrimental effect to their portal plans or not?

    I know that there has been lots of talk previously about why REA should open up some of its property data and have it appearing on other platforms (even a search tool appearing on this blog was raised at one point).

    I’m pretty sure that the last thing REV would want to do at this point is decide to feed out to MyHome, etc & then have to stop it in the future.

    What do others see as the pro’s & con’s for the outgoing feeds?

  98. Nick June 1, 2010 at 6:52 am #

    Well to Sal it is, and if a agent could reduce their pushing fees they would probably go with REV if they could keep their feeds going.

    It adds value to the service to agents as they can do more with it. It doesnt really detract away from REV as niche portals are not competing with them directly and their website facilities are probably better than most of the others.
    Agents get more enquiry and more exposure which makes them happy.

    It does add to the administrative work load however. Its not a very big technical burden.

  99. Vic June 1, 2010 at 7:41 am #

    Greg,
    It makes good business sense for REV to allow feeds to portals. I’d bet my bottom dollar that if a multi list uploader was part of the service given by REV, their existing agent clients and most other agent members of the REIs would flock to REV in droves. They would drop their current multilist up loaders, saving themselves a heap of money in the process, provided REV gives them the exposure and keeps the costs down.
    I’m sure that the portal sites wishing to participate would be prepared to defray set up costs, through an application fee, and would also accept that a condition of participation would be that their existing agent clients(the portals) want the service. Petra confirmed the latter condition to me. This is the way My desk top plays the game.

    Exposure is the name of the game but not only on mega sites.Niche marketing sites will also have a significant role to play in future internet search culure and REV should have a handle on this.

  100. Greg Vincent June 1, 2010 at 8:11 am #

    Vic, could that potentially reduce traffic to the REV site and/or water down the online presence that they are going in search of?

    If REV do the uploading and the enquiry comes from another portal, say MyHome (Free subscription), in this scenario, would an agent become more likely to or less likely to want to pay the REV subscriptions?

  101. Vic June 1, 2010 at 8:43 am #

    Greg,

    A valid question.
    However, neither you nor I can answer it at this point. If REV/REIA have done their polling extensively they may have a better idea. But as you can appreciate, its when the rubber hits the road, that the answer will come…

    My view is that the free to list portals are here to stay and will grow irrespective of the two major pay to lists and REV.
    For example one new free to list portal has in six months made arrangements with more than 20 bulk up loaders. And we are in the process of doing similar.

    As you are no doubt aware and as Shane Dale has already espoused, it is not rocket science to set up. A nuisance and a cost, but not hard.

    As most people are aware, REA and Domain basically own Hub on Line and My Desk Top respectively. Both multi listers work on the basis of their agent clients needs ie they understand that exposure is the key to selling and as a consequence provide the facility for the multi feeds.
    I cannot see them changing their policy anytime soon.

    So to give you my humble view, if the competition (free to list or pay to list sites) are providing this service the risk for REV by not going down this track would retard any goal they have of closing in on their major competitors.

  102. Nick June 1, 2010 at 8:53 am #

    Greg I dont believe so provided that REV provides adequate service.

    E.g. They already push to REA and Domain which would be the biggest competition, and agents probably already get more enquiry from them.

  103. Ian June 1, 2010 at 9:42 am #

    After reading the above comments and considering the way agents have been treated by the main players in the web portal game I say as an industry we deserve better for both our clients and ourselves. If it costs one thousand or two thousand dollars each to get this sorted and rolled out then lets do it. Time to control our own destiny!

  104. Glenn Rogers June 1, 2010 at 10:29 am #

    Trying to get everyone to like you is a sign of mediocrity.

  105. Elizabeth June 1, 2010 at 12:24 pm #

    Ian, you are ready to give money to Enzo, even though he will not answer some simple questions from me about how they will grow the business, provide products which consumers are using to find property, and also issues about ownership?

    I have a bridge to sell you!

    This is all sounding like the old REI’s Operation Destiny. An early 2000’s flop which cost a lot of REI’s a lot of money with no outcome.

    If this is the serious chance now, then Enzo, please be serious, answer my questions, and help us all understand and get behind you.

  106. Nick June 3, 2010 at 12:25 am #

    Hi,

    Firstly i would like to congratulate the REIV jioning froces with other states on providing a more comprehensive web site across Australia.

    Putting petty things aside -the more exposure the property gets on different web sites the better it is for the vendor as well as the agent and agency.

    I personally cant waite for all the web sites to open there doors to private sellers as i view what has gone on in the last 10 years of real estate an abolute disgrace .

    As we all know……without leads coming from the leading real estate portals ,the owner has near no hope of trying to sell a property themselves.Right now its a case of “no listing on realestate.com.au -no property sale.

    Its been a boys club.

    As stated above ,selling properties is much easier than 10-15 years ago when you did really have to work for your money as an agent.

    In the last 10 years agents have recieved over 200 % pay rises because of the value of property.Where else can you get a pay rise like that ?Is the average salary now $120,000 for a factory worker?I dont think so.

    You all know that you are blowing smoke up peoples bums when you are making statement like “i got $35,000 more for a similar property in the same street than a private seller” as the market can move up 10% in 1 month and statements like that need to be properly validated in its own context.

    Watch out boys and girls- when REA takes private listings (you can aready get on there with some private selling companies ) you might actually have to pull your finger out and do some real work.

    One things for sure in a market like now – the properties sell themselves -its not the skill of an agent.

    Looking forward to a real shake up and a fair commision of 1% not 2- and and when you try and go for 3% -you are taking the piss out of people.

    I certainly wont be paying any agent $20k agents commision for doing a few weeks of opens ever again.

    It wont hit you now or even 2 years ,but what goes around comes around and then you will really have something to cry about.

    Good luck………

  107. Greg Vincent June 3, 2010 at 1:55 am #

    Nick, There’s no doubt that real estate agents will have to work hard and demonstrate ways that they can provide real value for money for their customers going forward.

    The timing of your comment coincides with the announcement of yet another Agent-Assist service being released into the marketplace http://clickonrealestate.com.au/. This is another service like http://www.ForSaleForLease.com.au and http://www.Place2Live.com.au and i believe that there will be a lot more to come in the future.

    The clickonrealestate.com.au site launch was announced today http://www1.propertyportalwatch.com/2010/06/agent-assisted-site-launches-in-aus/

    It will be interesting to see how these services impact the real estate industry. Some of the agents involved in establishing these services also promote that they are members of the institutes within their state.

    It looks like there is no stopping them from uploading onto REA and I doubt that there will be any way of stopping them from uploading onto the National Industry Based site either.

  108. Greg Vincent June 3, 2010 at 2:38 am #

    Last night’s launch at the Sydney Opera House appeared to be very well received by all the attendees.

    A number of agents signed up to the service straight after the product was presented to the crowd.

    During his speech Enzo Raimondo announced that they have received confirmation that the Real Estate Institute of Queensland have officially confirmed that they are also going to joining in and that the service is definitely going to be available Nationally.

    To coincide with the launch the board of the REINSW are meeting today and as I mentioned to a number of the board members, it’s not going to be easy but if they can pull it off it will be a major coup for our industry.

    Whilst the launch at the Opera House was symbolic & effective, now the real works starts and as Pete Richards said earlier they are going to need some key personnel out in the field driving the campaign and getting the agents on board.

    They will need to establish key alliances and set realistic targets because whilst a lot of agents are frustrated & annoyed by the duopoly that currently exists these same agents are going to take some real convincing to jump on board during these early stages.

    If they get their strategy right the momentum will build very quickly and I believe that they could see themselves in the number 2 spot very quickly, get it wrong and they will take years to get it off the ground.

Leave a Reply