Realestateview moves in front of Domain in Google

Over the last week it appears Realestateview has launched itself up the Google search results for the term “real estate” now ranking number 2 behind Realestate.com.au. Domain which was number 2 has now been pushed down to the 4th result below PropertyNow.com.au

This is quite alarming for Domain and they would surely be seeking answers to why this has happened. Could this be due to a blunder by the Domain SEO team resulting in Google punishing them?

What’s interesting is, that Page Rank doesn’t appear to be influencing rankings too much as Realestate (PR=8), Realestateview (PR=6), PropertyNow (PR=5) and Domain (PR=8).

Could it be that Google have changed their algorithm and this has affected the results. Perhaps using the terms “realestate” and ‘property” have more weighting now than before. That said Realestate1 don’t appear on the first page.

Anyway, it would be great to hear from some SEO gurus. Andrew B any ideas?

Domain, PropertyNow, propertynow.com.au, Realestateview

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About The Insider

Ryan has been involved in the real estate industry for a number of years. During this time he has operated web based real estate businesses along with provided consulting to the real estate software development industry. Ryan operates Agentpoint.com.au and is actively involved with the design and development of real estate systems, software and web sites in the United States, Australia and New Zealand.

108 Responses to Realestateview moves in front of Domain in Google

  1. Glenn Rogers September 9, 2011 at 6:48 pm #

    This is the greatest change in Google results I can remember,
    Domain was always #2
    Might be temporary might not be but certainly very significant.

  2. Glenn Rogers September 9, 2011 at 6:50 pm #

    If this result looks like sticking agents will be falling over themselves to support the industry web site for a change.

  3. Bill September 9, 2011 at 7:12 pm #

    I have no idea what relevance the number of pages indexed on rankings has, but

    site:www.domain.com.au = 1,820,000 pages indexed
    site:www.realestateview.com.au = 5,730,000 pages indexed

    and that’s some serious difference.

  4. PropertyNow September 9, 2011 at 7:21 pm #

    Ryan, Domain will catch PropertyNow again quite soon simply because they have vastly more resources than we do. However they will have a much harder time displacing realestateview in the long term because realestateview have got their act together.

    It’s also possible that Domain is suffering a temporary slip because they upped the ante recently with their seo efforts…or so I was told. Dropping before climbing higher is a common result of doing that. Having said that, this doesn’t look like that kind of bounce, but we shall see within 2 – 3 weeks.

    Agents can and should support both RealEstateView and PropertyNow. PropertyNow always was and still remains – free for agents. We welcome agents to the new site and will have several thousand on board soon.

    I want to congratulate realestateview on doing a fine job not only in the serps but also in what seems a good clean and innovative website that can absolutely match realestate.com.au, if they remain focused. Having said that of their main and public site, their admin area is leaving a lot to be desired.

    All they really have to do is focus on helping their clients, the agents.If they do that they will continue to challenge the status quo.

    REA lost sight of that many years ago. They are taking steps to address the lost support base but it may be too little too late.

    Andrew Blachut
    PropertyNow
    http://www.propertynow.com.au

  5. Ryan O'Grady September 9, 2011 at 7:33 pm #

    Thanks for your thoughts Andrew. Have you guys crept up much or only as a result of Domain?

    Bill, PropertyNow has 26,000 pages, so thats a bit like PR in that they are well behind Domain but out rank them.

  6. James September 9, 2011 at 7:45 pm #

    Ryan,

    I note you are signed in to your google account in the screenshot. You have to be careful with this as google personalises search results and your first page of results may not look like another’s. (Especially as i see more and more results which hsave been tweeted by my twitter followers in my personalised searc results).

    Pagerank is one factor with decreasing importance in effecting search results, and the page rank you and i see is known as ‘toolbar’ pagerank and is updated less and less frequently and is widely belived to lag 3-6 months behind ‘actual’ pagerank used by Google’s algorithms. Most SEOs worth their salt have turned their back on Pagerank as a useful measure/ indicator of anything.

    A more complete view of these changes would be analysis of ‘real estate in…(location)’ terms across the country and the amount of traffic these terms provide. Relatively few searchers simply type in ‘real estate’ I would imagine and the combination using the location in the search string will return very different results from location to location.

    I don’t think this is such a big deal based on the limited information we have here, but it’s a status thing and sure enough the people responsible for search rankings at Domain.com.au will be hurting.

    @Property I totally agree with this statement fbased on my personal experience: ‘Dropping before climbing higher is a common result’

    JC

  7. Nick September 9, 2011 at 7:56 pm #

    Pagerank has not been a significant factor for about a decade. Its a factor, just not *the* factor.

    It will be interesting to see if these rankings stick. I can confirm that I see the same results with Domain below PropertyNow.

    I kind of feel sorry for the person at Domain who will lose their job over this. If no one gets fired then that probably explains why they are now #4.

  8. Glenn Rogers September 9, 2011 at 8:39 pm #

    It might be an anomaly but it’s the first time in over 10 years that Domain haven’t been second so it’s significant just from that point of view, if it sticks well…..it’s a whole new ball game.
    I disagree that this is not the main search term for real estate and in any case if this result sticks it will flow through to other search terms.

  9. Jason Rose September 9, 2011 at 9:09 pm #

    i have checked one of my ranking tools and yep the results are correct

    check out this screen shot

    http://screencast.com/t/hbVYkVGRV

    one of the suprising ones is number 10 compared to some of the others

    a lot of things going on with google at the moment with rankings changing from day to day

  10. Glenn Batten September 10, 2011 at 12:05 am #

    Don’t get too excited. One keyword on one day does not mean too much.

    A check on other keywords such as

    Brisbane Real Estate
    Sydney Real Estate
    Melbourne Real Estate
    Adelaide Real Estate
    Perth Real Estate
    Queensland Real Estate
    New South Wales Real Estate
    Victoria Real Estate
    etc etc

    shows very little movement for now. I also agree with the points about dropping before a rapid climb and about checking rankings whilst logged in.

    This may be an early indicator… but if it is its not very widespread just yet.

    Realestate.com.au dont get their traffic from the ranking of any one keyword. They consistently place high for any keyword with the term “real estate” in it.

  11. Glenn Rogers September 10, 2011 at 8:23 am #

    Yes Glenn but the search – real estate – is the key to all the others, if this sticks it will flow through.

    This has nothing to do with being logged in this has been the result for over a week now and we’re not talking about realestate.com.au this is about Domain who have lost #2 after more than 10 years, perhaps temporarily but we’ll see.

  12. PropertyNow September 10, 2011 at 1:35 pm #

    No we haven’t crept up all that much Ryan.

    People forget that we have been front page for Google for 3 years for – real estate.

    We have only climbed one space and of course at the pointing end of the pyramid one place is a significant movement …as every website in front of us is a mega site.

    Realestateview , domain and realestate.com.au all have two huge advantages over PropertyNow which we cannot compete with. First they have insane monthly revenues to use on seo and secondly they all have networks they feed off, Realestate.com.au feed off News Ltd sites, Domain off Fairfax Network and RealEstateView have Bigpond and Trading Post network sites.

    The real mover will continue to be realestateview because the way I see it, they have huge recurring income with very low costs, unlike REA and Domain who pay huge wages bills etc.

    Ryan for PropertyNow to really compete will require a substantial JV and its something we have been seeking for a while now. Having said that, we have been buoyed this week not only by the great search engine result but we were also approached by the big G to Beta test some stuff…so all in all a good week.

    On the downside our rankings suffered a lot ( in terms of ability to increase ) because of the site rebuild whereby we lost many pages due to changes in code etc to an a ASP server.

    I can see REV literally challenging realestate.com.au for top spot. They have some huge advantages that no one else brings to the table and they are advantages that REA will struggle to compete with in the next 2 years

    Andrew Blachut
    PropertyNow
    Real Estate Agent and Agent Assisted Private Sales

  13. Ryan O'Grady September 10, 2011 at 1:53 pm #

    Thanks James for your input, amazing what Google can do now.

    It will be interesting to see how this pans out over the coming weeks. I agree that what really matters are the “real estate %suburb%” searchers. What are your thoughts on that Andrew as you

  14. Glenn Rogers September 10, 2011 at 5:17 pm #

    real estate gets 6,120,000 searches per month in Australia.

    realestate 5.000,000

    sydney real estate 74,000
    melbourne real estate 90,000

    etc

    I know where I’d rather be.

    I always search real estate THEN go to a portal and drill down from there.

    The results are even worse for the term realestate for Domain who come after Ray White.

    The others are collectively important but there no doubt that this drop by Domain for the most important search term by far is highly significant.

    I expect it will reverse, it’s hard to accept that this is a permanent change, ……just yet anyway.

  15. Glenn Batten September 10, 2011 at 5:29 pm #

    Glenn R

    I disagree that the term “Real Estate” is the key to the others. I have never seen propertynow ever return for any suburb/city search I have done yet as Andrew has mentioned he has been on “Real Estate” for 3 years. I am not saying he doesnt, but I have not seen it and I reckon it would be limited to just the suburbs he has listings in.

    They key to the %suburb% real estate searches is the content pages. Without the listings you will never really rank for those tens of thousands of terms. Thats were REA, Domain and REV get their traffic from. Real estate searches are often refined by location and I would bet that the majority of searches using “Real Estate” would then re-search to get a better more targetted result.

    Dropping out of the index for one keyword combo is not unusual..nor is a dramatic dropout across the board although that is not as often. This is often a precursor to a significant change in ranking, either positive or negative.

    If realestateview had changed rankings on some of the other terms I would think there might be more in it but I dont think they have. Because of that I dont think REV should get too excited yet and plan any big announcements or marketing claims as it could easily be reversed. It could be a sign of things to come or just a bump in the road.. Time will tell.

    Traffic wise that is pretty big gap to close and the ranking of one keyword will not change it that easily http://trends.google.com/websites?q=domain.com.au%2C+realestateview.com.au%2C+propertynow.com.au&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

  16. Glenn Rogers September 10, 2011 at 5:39 pm #

    Of course it will only flow through if you have the content, but if you have the content being up there for the term real estate is where it will all flow from.

    Why would anyone refine a real estate search when all you have to do is go to a portal and drill down from there ? I disagree with you there but do agree it’s now wait and see for realestateview, if I had to put money on it I would say it will reverse, but Domain have to have a good close look at how this happened.

  17. Paul Small September 10, 2011 at 9:19 pm #

    Ryan the real story has been lost here~! Take a look at Andrew Blachut’s posts and love affair with Realestateview . How things change now that Andrew has an agreement with REV.

    Gone are the days when Andrew was threatening legal action against REV when there was no agreement in place.

    Tell us once again why REV will be No.1 please Andrew ….?

  18. Glenn Rogers September 11, 2011 at 8:14 am #

    It’s patchy but there’s no doubt they have moved and it might just stick.

  19. Glenn Batten September 11, 2011 at 11:08 am #

    Glenn R

    I checked that link you provided..

    7 x Google Places Pages come first

    then REA, Domain x 2, Myhome, McGrath, Homehound, Ray White Manly, LJ Hooker SNB

    and then finally Realestateview.com.au second from the bottom.

    I take it you seen something different when you looked because this does not show anything of importance other than how much Local Search matters these days over an above traditional serp rankings… That fact that you seen something different that is not there is only confirmation that some re-indexing is going on.. not where the movements will stop.

    As to refining searches directly in Google… thats what google instant is all about. Somebody types in “Real Estate” and it responds automatically with the results without hitting the search button or the enter key — but since it does not provide the targetted results the users refines it and they keep typing the suburb or city to build another search on the fly.

    This is exactly why Google Instant was born, in fact you probably had Google Instant turned on so as you typed in real estate northern beaches sydney you did exactly what I described.. your google instant showed you the “real estate” results first… but it dynamically changed it as you typed in the rest.

    Unless you have turned off Google Instant of course ??

    Keyword refinement happens even more than ever before in Google and the user only clicks through once the refinement has been done.

  20. Glenn Rogers September 11, 2011 at 11:32 am #

    Mmm I get 7 local results (Places) then REV then REA x 2 then Domain.

    I do find I get different results from different computers from time to time.

    If your own site has a bit of info about your local area and local listings it will rank in the local search anyway, no point spending too much time on that in my opinion, far better just to plug into the majors and go out and sell something.

    I never use a local search as all the listings are on the majors, I think that is the general feeling hence the earlier monthly search figures I posted.

    In the past I did for CRE as I felt commercial buyers and tenants did search locally, I guess it’s just a matter of knowing your customers and the way they think, I had that advantage being an agent for so long first.

  21. Glenn Rogers September 11, 2011 at 7:27 pm #

    Now on the lap top and getting the same result as you on that search, go figure.

  22. Andrew Blachut September 11, 2011 at 7:37 pm #

    Answer to Paul Small
    – Paul, you state I have a love affair with Realestateview? Can an observation not be made on this blog without someone getting negative on PropertyNow? All I have said is that realestateview is very likely to usurp domain long term and I base that on very sound seo knowledge as well as simple economics.

    Paul, you have never met me, nor I you, but you have an axe to grind with me. But still I always enjoy engaging with people when they make absurd, unresearched, unsubstantiated and unsupported comments. I use the word comments because the comments certainly don’t amount to an argument.

    So lets see how your assertions stand up shall we Mr Small ?

    You claim a love affair. Where in any post above is that indicated? I have merely stated that in my opinion long term REW’s url, link networks and cost structure are all superior to Domain at this point.

    I also said ( in case you missed it ) that domain will reclaim its place in front of PropertyNow for the phrase real estate quite soon. And in any case…. who cares…. as according to Paul Batten its a virtually uselesss achievement any way.

    Next statement by Mr Small-minded was that we PropertyNow originally threatened to sue REV.
    So Mr Small which of these two is it? – do you suggest I should have thanked them when they refused PropertyNow listings on their site? If not then you must certainly be suggesting that I at least harbour a grudge against them.

    Apparently Mr Small cannot ever conceive of a situation in which a person can object to something that a company does at one time and then at a later date find favour in the same company. And in this case find favour means nothing more than suggesting that they ( REW ) have got their act together.

    By the way small – if you read my earlier posts about realestateview you will find that what I actually said was that it was very likely they would not be forced to accept PropertyNow listings because they are not a Market Power as is REA. Please do a little research before shooting off your mouth.

    This must be one of the best blogs on the internet for getting criticised for heaping praise on someone or something. I praise REV and get attacked again as usual….it gets boring.

    Now back to Glenn Batten whose main job when I comment is to also criticise. Here is your previous statement Glenn, just a few posts above this one

    – he has been on

  23. Glenn Batten September 11, 2011 at 7:37 pm #

    Possibly you were pulling of another Google data centre.. Different ones provide different results at times as they sync. I did have an online tool that would allow you to query each one and compare rankings side by side but I dont know where it is now or even if it still works.

  24. Dan September 11, 2011 at 7:46 pm #

    “I can see REV literally challenging realestate.com.au for top spot. They have some huge advantages that no one else brings to the table and they are advantages that REA will struggle to compete with in the next 2 years

    Andrew Blachut”

    Hi Andrew,
    Im nothing more then a casual observer here who is a part time seo hacker and hobbysite builder however I am curious how you think REV is challenging RE. What huge advantages do they bring to the table that RE cant compete with?

  25. Vic September 12, 2011 at 12:02 pm #

    Just get your act together Mr. Small-minded your comments are absurd :)))) – but you still make a point.

  26. PropertyNow September 12, 2011 at 12:24 pm #

    Hi Dan. Happy to elaborate.

    The realestateview url is far superior to domain.

    Domain face a similar ( but worse) problem as we do at PropertyNow in that our url also does not contain – real estate. Our url woul be far more useful overseas where it is more common to speak of property rather than real estate.

    The other major advantages for realestateview over domain are twofold. REV will have far less costs in ratio to online revenue (I assume) and so should have a far bigger seo budget.

    Thirdly they have done some great networking through links from Bigpond and Trading Post …which levels the backlink playing field with Domain, who have had the advantage of millions of links via association with Fairfax.

    Happy to be contradicted on any of this and the only point I am making is that in my opinion REV is likely to end up winning and cemeting number two portal position, especially given the flagging support of agents towards other sites.

    I would not be a bit surprised if domain come back strongly for a while…after all they won’t lie back and allow this to occur….. but long term they and REA will face genuine competition and for once it is real competition. And again their fall from grace ( if it is that ) may be nothing more than a repositioning due to an increased seo drive by domain. I think its more likely though that REV is going places.

    Andrew Blachut
    PropertyNow

  27. Glenn Rogers September 12, 2011 at 12:53 pm #

    Fairfax do have another domain name which I handed over in 06′ along with the CRE site.

    http://www.residentialrealestate.com.au

    The perfect partner to

    http://www.commercialrealestate.com.au

    Why haven’t they used it ?

    Someone else would have to answer that,

  28. Glenn Rogers September 12, 2011 at 1:37 pm #

    OK I’ll tell you –

    Domain.com.au was a well established national brand even back in 06′

    It’s understandable that they didn’t consider changing it but I would have bitten the bullet and made the change anyway because I have a strong belief in the power of generic domain names.

    Others don’t share that belief but to have a domain name with a keyword in it is desirable, to have a domain name that IS the keyword or phrase is gold.

    Not only does it work from an SEO angle but it’s easier to brand and searchers remember it because it’s actually what they are searching for.

    People don’t search for Domains but they do search for real estate which is why REA are dominant in that area.

    Similarly people do not search for Real commercials but they do search for Commercial real estate and thats why Fairfax is dominant in that area.

  29. Ricky September 12, 2011 at 1:52 pm #

    Since when was the Commercial Fairfax site dominant? They are the concrete No. 2 in everything they do aren’t they?

  30. Vic September 12, 2011 at 4:11 pm #

    Ryan,

    Its interesting to note the meta tag description in the major sites. REA, Domain, and homepage all use “property” whilst Review and REIWA use “Real-Estate”. Could this be a reason why Review has got the edge over domain. The REA domain name would seem to be a good reason why it consistently hits top spot everywhere and in everysuburb.

    I tend to agree with Glenn Batten in terms of the way I think a lot of searchers would use google search bar and would add that if a specific type were needed they would search – “units in Bondi” or “beachfront houses in surfers paradise” etc I would tend to think that tyre kickers would use “real estate” only or “real estate Bondi”.

    Generally, niches fare quite well when they do their SEO bearing in minds what text they think a searcher will use. ie REVIEW with Homes in Victoria, REIWA with homes in WA and Allhomes with Homes in Canberra. Although REA still trumps them all in all states. Myhome seems to do well in most states and this is a real bonus to REVIEW.

    Until we get to see REVIEW get anywhere near the number of unique visitors as Domain, the NO 1 spot in REAL ESTATE is really irrelevant. IMHO

  31. Vic September 12, 2011 at 7:13 pm #

    Hate to change the subject slightly- Glenn B, have you heard of a revamp and relaunch of the REIQ portal?

    Sounds like a good move for QLD agents.

    Also another national portal about to be launched nationally- wow, everyone wants to get into the act.

  32. PropertyNow real estate September 12, 2011 at 9:02 pm #

    Glenn Rodgers hit the nail on the head. Domains url is a train wreck for seo and it means they have to do everything else twice as well to compensate. Now they are stuck with it and it will hamper them until Google completely changes its ranking algorithm.

    Andrew Blachut
    PropertyNow

  33. Glenn Batten September 12, 2011 at 10:51 pm #

    Vic,

    REIQ have released a property portal based on the highly successful REIWA portal. Last figures I heard was 1350+ agents and over 60,000 unique properties. It’s not really a relaunch or revamp as they have only had property listings recently since a soft launch earlier this year.

    I must admit when they did that soft launch I was a bit worried that it was not ready but that launch was more targetted to agents to get them to switch on their property. The launch to the public has just taken place and they are pushing it with a $20k comp. The push by the industry is very promising and what was really interesting was some comments by the REIQ recently about a national REI portal.. but more on that in an article I think πŸ™‚

    The challenge for the REIQ is about Branding themselves which is certainly topical given the discussion in here at the moment.

  34. Glenn Batten September 12, 2011 at 11:14 pm #

    I agree it’s beneficial to have your keyword in your Domain… and even in your URL but it is not critical and according to Google its importance is destined to be dialled down in their algorithm.

    In fact Google’s Matt Cutts said earlier this year “Now if you are still on the fence, let me just give you a bit of color. that we have looked at the rankings and the weights that we give to keyword domains, & some people have complained that we are giving a little too much weight for keywords in domains. So we have been thinking about adjusting that mix a bit and sort of turning the knob down within the algorithm, so that given 2 different domains it wouldn’t necessarily help you as much to have a domain name with a bunch of keywords in it.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAWFv43qubI

    The video also discusses Brands in search engine rankings which has been of increasing importance since 2009 however it is believed Google ranks “brand” through a range of metrics, not some arbitrary listing of major brands.

    Domain.com.au has created a massive brand throughout NSW and particuly in Sydney. They have trained the public to search for keywords like “Domain Property”, “Domain Rentals” and “Domain Real Estate”.

    If Domain was to get an indirect benefit by dialling down the importance of keywords in domains then their strong brand may work in their favour.

    REIWA has done this over in Western Australia and the REIQ is trying to do the same in Queensland.

    Something to think about πŸ™‚

  35. Vic September 12, 2011 at 11:30 pm #

    Thanks Glenn B,

    Just heard that all Australian agents have been sent an email re the new “industry” owned portal launch.

    http://www.viewproperty.com

    I wont comment on the press release as no doubt Ryan or you will do an article on it.

  36. Vic September 12, 2011 at 11:32 pm #

    sorry make that link http://www.viewproperty.com.au

  37. Glenn Rogers September 13, 2011 at 7:35 am #

    Glenn B – that video is interesting but Cutts is talking about the US market over 200m people where you can spend $100m on a web site , call it what you like and it will fire.

    Amazon for instance – nothing to do with books but heavily branded to a large population and it works.

    Cutts says people have complained about keyword domains having too much weight, well the complaints come from the majority that simply don’t have them, simple, most people who don’t believe in generic domains don’t have them, they are a finite resource.

    The content of the site is more important but when Cutts talks of branding I dont think there is anything more brandable than a generic name Cutts is speaking for all the millions who don’t have them but you can bet that anyone looking for real estate wont search for anything but real estate

    Domain have to re brand their name at great expense 24/7
    REA don’t.

    I used to use the slogan http://www.commercialrealestate.com.au, where else would you go for commercial real estate ? and it’s true.

    Generic domain names are already branded and are branded for life, free of charge.

    A generic domain name in the right hands, and thats important, is unbeatable.

  38. Glenn Rogers September 13, 2011 at 7:36 am #

    Vic there already an industry owned portal – realestateview

  39. Glenn Batten September 13, 2011 at 8:13 am #

    Glenn R

    Cutts is the expert here not you or I… Why?? because he is the one who writes the rules, not interprets them. If he says they will turn down the importance of keywords in domains he is not guessing … he is the man that gives the order for that to be done. Cutts is not talking for the millions of people who dont have keyword filled domains… he is talking for Google.. You may not agree with him or think he is joking… I dont. Nor do I think they have separate rules for the USA and Australia.

    Also, it’s important to note that he has not said he will turn off the effect of keywords in domain… just turn it down..

    Brand is not about the spelling of a word.. ie… commercial real estate.. in your example. CommercialRealEstate might indeed be a brand for commerical real estate, but not just because thats how its spelled.

    Similarly Realestate.com.au is a brand in its own right… and the effect of a dialling down of importance for keywords in domain will have little effect on people searching specifically for that portal… however it will probably have some effect for people searching “%suburb% real estate” and other portals and even local real estate agents might be the winners.

    I agree that Domain have spent a lot of money to build up their brand in Sydney however they dont have to.. Look at the USA market and brands like
    Zillow and Trulia do not throw money around.

  40. Glenn Batten September 13, 2011 at 8:14 am #

    ViewProperty.com.au is not an industry portal.. It may be owned by people in the industry, but that is a different thing altogether.

  41. Vic September 13, 2011 at 8:54 am #

    Don’t want to get into semantics on the word industry. But it has been loosely and eroneously used throughout the release to agents by Ross Bulman the CEO of the new portal. That’s why I put the word in italics.

    In reality it seems that a group of agents are starting this site with the objective of raising capital via issue of shares to real estate agents only. Apparently the aim is to restrict the number of shares that can be taken up by individual agents.

    The only true “industry owned sites” from what I can tell are REIWA and the REIQ site. I will always argue that Review is not industry owned, as only 75% is owned by REIV and the rest is supposedley owned by a agents/groups. IMHO

  42. Glenn Rogers September 13, 2011 at 9:21 am #

    Glenn B – Cutts is supporting the millions who do not have generic domain names, do you expect him to come out and say they are more important then they are ?
    He would only be speaking to a very small minority who have them if he ran that line but you can bet when the camera is off he would admit that they are superior in every way.

    You cant compare brands like Domain and the US ones it’s chalk and cheese, don’t worry they’ve spent millions.

    Domain dont have to brand in Sydney ? You kidding ? they are branded every day of the week in print and TV but I bet you can walk up to most people and ask who they are and they don’t know, I’ve tried it.

    But they all search real estaste when looking.

    Commercialrealestate.com.au has been #1 on Google for 13 years and not because it’s a brand purely because it is generic and has the content.

  43. Glenn Rogers September 13, 2011 at 9:23 am #

    I still see REV as industry owned via the REIV though partly financed privately I presume, if agents are interested just ask them for goodness sake.

  44. Sam September 13, 2011 at 9:43 am #

    You lost me with the references to meta tags.

    You guys are so prehistoric.

  45. Glenn Rogers September 13, 2011 at 9:45 am #

    This has turned into a discussion about SEO etc which is a bit off topic but certainly not unrelated to the subject matter.

  46. David September 13, 2011 at 2:00 pm #

    Vic,

    realestateworld.com.au is also another

  47. Bill September 13, 2011 at 3:38 pm #

    If you missed MediaWatch last night it can be viewed at http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/826700 start at the 5 minute mark. Interesting segment regarding real estate advertisng in newspapers and a call to boycott. Sorry if this a little of topic.

  48. Glenn Batten September 13, 2011 at 8:32 pm #

    Glenn R…

    What can I say.. I show you the leading expert from Google saying on video that they are looking to dial down the importance of keywords in a domain in their algorithm and you tell me what he really meant to say, why he said it and what he says off camera..

    Seriously … This is not just some hack, but a senior level executive in a company who is very secretive about its algorithm. I don’t think he was just “joshing”.

    Also.. my comment “I agree that Domain have spent a lot of money to build up their brand in Sydney however they dont have to.. ” should have been.. “I agree that Domain have spent a lot of money to build up their brand in Sydney however maybe they dont have to.. ”

    The comment was in the context of some of their main competitors (realestate.com.au and realestateview.com.au) might lose one of their seo advantages of keyword importance in the domain.

    Given the whole discussion, the paragraph before, and the paragraph after It makes no sense without the “maybe”.

  49. Glenn Rogers September 13, 2011 at 8:58 pm #

    Glenn B I know all too well who Matt Cutts is a mate of mine has met him, and I stand by what I’ve said.

    I didn’t say he woudn’t dial down the importance, anyway I don’t think you actually got what I said.

    If he dialed it down I think he turned the dial the wrong way because all the names that are now above Domain have keywords in them.

  50. Glenn Rogers September 13, 2011 at 9:08 pm #

    Whooo I’m now getting
    Domain second
    REV third
    Propertynow 4th

    Well that didnt last long…………Matt Cutts must have been reading this and ran back to the dial πŸ™‚

  51. Glenn Rogers September 14, 2011 at 6:25 pm #

    Propertynow is above REV now.

    This may not settle for a while.

  52. Glenn Rogers September 15, 2011 at 7:08 pm #

    REV now above Propertynow…….for now, think that may be it.

    Have to wait another 10+ years for this much geek excitement again.

  53. Vic September 15, 2011 at 7:12 pm #

    On my search, homehound is above review and propertynow. I can’t believe I just posted this. Rivetting stuff – Ryan close it down pleeease πŸ™‚

  54. Glenn Rogers September 15, 2011 at 7:23 pm #

    That looks like it’s changing now Vic, you better geek up if you’re not fascinated by this you don’t make the grade πŸ™‚

  55. Glenn Rogers September 16, 2011 at 1:36 pm #

    Does anyone remember what the first 6 or so positions were before the changes ?

    Andrew is doing exceptionally well to come in at #4

  56. Glenn Batten September 17, 2011 at 6:13 pm #

    I dont have him coming in 4th at the moment but much further down… regardless page 1 is a good result.

  57. Glenn Rogers September 17, 2011 at 6:29 pm #

    Your result is probably how mine will be soon, I cant see him staying ahead of the likes of Elders Ray White and First National for very long but yes if he can stay on the first page that would be an achievement.

  58. Vic September 18, 2011 at 8:00 am #

    Unique Visitor traffic is the ultimate measure of an SEO program: NOT where someone is positioned on google for the word “real estate”. Take for example REIWA it would have more than 10 times the traffic that propertynow has and it doesn’t show on page one for REAL ESTATE.
    I’m with Glenn B on this score that the import search terms are those that use “real estate + Surburb or state”. This would seem the more logical way for searchers using google search bar.

  59. Glenn Rogers September 18, 2011 at 9:51 am #

    Propertynow has moved above REV on my search, not sure what Google is up to here but they are certainly stirring the pot.

  60. PropertyNow September 18, 2011 at 10:18 am #

    Vic, your comments show a complete lack of understanding.

    Take away paid traffic from realestateview and see how many uniques they get then. If you take away paid traffic you are left with only social media traffic and offline generated traffic. For example a url on a business card, url in a magazine, newspaper, radio or television.

    Your incredibly simplistic argument would suggest that rankings are a waste of time ( similar to Glenn Battens viewpoint ) and I will be very pleased if you and others continue to believe that.

    There are only 2 kinds of traffic – paid traffic and organic traffic and you can bet your bottom dollar that REV is buying quite a lot of paid traffic….as they should. Therefor your argument is about seo budgets and not rankings at all Vic but you have not noticed the obvious connection.

    In relation to Vic’s comment above regarding the rankings – Here is Vic’s comment Sept 15th –
    ” – On my search, homehound is above review and propertynow”

    This never happened at all Vic……clean your cookies and log out of Google accounts when checking. And you will also get differing results in different search engines and sometimes different browsers. Data centers also update at different times but then we are talking a matter of 24 hours. In any case the results you reported Vic were just nonsense.

    In relation to HH… I am unaware of homehound being front page ever, certainly not in the past few years. They are a great site and deserves to be higher for many phrases. They provide a better service for free than many do at a cost.

    They will move up mopst likely… as Belinda Campo from HomeHound mentioned to me a few weeks ago that they were going to ramp things up.

    So just summarising Vic, your dismissal of rankings importance on the basis that traffic is all important is a bit like saying…….cars aren’t important , what’s important is how quickly you can move from town to town.

    I mean, do I really need to explain to Vic that PropertyNow ( or any site ) can have 100, 000 uniques monthly overnight………and all I need to do to get that ….is to place money in adwords… and its done instantly.

    Given that realestate.com.au have been the number one website for the phrase “‘real estate”‘ for about a decade, what is your reasoning Vic for the fact that REA still buy the keyword real estate…..hmmm? Given your reasoning above you can only conclude its for branding and to keep domain from ranking number one ( for you guessed it ) real estate

    Vic please continue to comment about seo on this blog as regularly as possible…and I will even pay you to consult for my opposition:-)

    Andrew Blachut
    PropertyNow

  61. Glenn Rogers September 18, 2011 at 10:47 am #

    I see a lot of excellent organic results for REV in both residential and commercial, from what I’ve seen their SEO is faultless.
    Regardless, with a monthly search rate of …….as I posted earlier –

    real estate gets 6,120,000 searches per month in Australia.

    realestate 5.000,000

    sydney real estate 74,000
    melbourne real estate 90,000

    secondary searches are fine but if you can rate for real estate you’re laughing.and I still believe most people just search the main term then drill down from a portal……………and Google figures suggest I’m right.

    Server holding up OK Andrew ? πŸ™‚

  62. Glenn Rogers September 18, 2011 at 11:09 am #

    Thisa might be a good place to nominate any good SEO people you might know, not the basic stuff that we already know but advanced SEO.
    In anticipation of no one replying, thanks for nothing πŸ™‚

  63. Glenn Rogers September 18, 2011 at 11:13 am #

    I guess in support of the “no need to rank for the main term” school of thought, my traffic comes from over 3,000 different search terms but I don’t rank highly for the terms I’m most interested in, so the traffic comes in anyway from all different angles BUT the main search terms are the ultimate goal,

  64. Glenn Batten September 18, 2011 at 2:11 pm #

    Glenn R,

    Your traffic is coming from long tail keywords.

    Even though Propertynow is ranking on the front page for a keyword that generates 6m searches every month he now admits that he would have to spend substantially on adwords just to get 100k uniques per month.

    So what is he getting without adwords ??? 50,000 uniques??

    Thats hardly a ringing endorsement for ranking on one very popular keyword don’t you think?

    As one example.. Allhomes does not rank for any general real estate terms at all and they only operate in one city yet they have substantial traffic whereas propertynow does not even generate enough traffic to rank http://trends.google.com/websites?q=allhomes.com.au%2C+propertynow.com.au&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

    Just how is it you suggest that Google’s figures suggest people dont refine searches for real estate??? You dont assume that everyone would only refine real estate to sydney real estate and melbourne real estate do you… ????

    Thats being just a tad myopic!

    In fact by your own admission now your own traffic comes from 3000 different searches how many do you think realestate.com.au traffic comes from. What about domain?? realestateview? All those sites rank for %suburb% real estate searches …

    I contend that evidence from google and that provided here shows that the engagement rate “real estate” searches is pretty low.

    Explain this to me.. according to Google Trends for Websites the search terms in order that realestate.com.au gets its traffic from are

    1. realestate au
    2. real estate au
    3. realestate au rent
    4. real estate melbourne
    5. real estate sydney
    6. realestate
    7. real estate

    “Real Estate” is 7th yet that terms generates substantially more as we both know and realestate.com.au is the number 1 result.

    Care to explain how your opinion that searchers dont refine their search based upon those numbers because I can’t see how it stands up.

    I think the SEO strategy employed by REA, Domain, realestateview etc etc are far more advanced (actually not even in the same league) and successful than propertynow and thats why the differences in traffic is massive..

    Saying that… Propertynow with it’s high pagerank is probably in a good position to start ranking higher for other keywords if they can just get somebody better to create a superior strategy and stop focussing only on backlinks, pagerank and one keyword.

    Just to evidence how “myopic” (yes I know I used it again) the seo strategy of propertynow is …

    Their home page has a great pagerank but the backlink campaign has focussed only on the homepage so the other pages have no pagerank at all or they return zero. Instead of spamming blog comments with keywords that a no-followed he should have been building links to his internal pages.

    In contrast, realestate.com.au strategy does not just focus on pagerank for the homepage but has rankings for all their main pages.

    http://www.realestate.com.au/buy/in-qld/list-1 ranks PR6
    http://www.realestate.com.au/buy/in-nsw/list-1 ranks PR6
    http://www.realestate.com.au/buy/in-brisbane/list-1 ranks PR5
    http://www.realestate.com.au/buy/in-nerang/list-1 ranks PR2
    etc etc

    They have thousands of pages all with their own pagerank. Thats why they rank so well and they generate what they do.

    I think Propertynow’s opposition is doing pretty well without advice from Vic, Andrew, yourself or even me πŸ™‚

  65. Real Estate Agency September 18, 2011 at 2:26 pm #

    Glenn, you are 100% correct and I just can’t fathom the cloudy logic of Glenn Batten and Vic on this topic.

    They and every other serious website owner desires search engine rankings and it’s so self evident that they are critical, that it seems bizarre to have to correct them on such a basic premise.

    Glenn Rodgers has correctly pointed out ( and thanks Glenn because I forgot to ) that REV has excellent rankings for major keywords. The point is that that they are buying a great deal of paid traffic……as absolutely any website can. A one day old website can have more traffic than REA tomorrow if they had a deep enough pocket. Are you listening here Vic?

    Just to prove it once and for all to Vic……Vic, go to Google and type in “buy house” and notice all the advertisers buying the keyword. Most are major sites and yet they are still buying traffic….and that traffic appears as traffic in their website stats, just exactly as though it was from an organic free click.

    This is actualy a good thing ( buying traffic ) if ytu have the budget for it and I only raise it because of the crazy argument Vic was trying to sustain above this post.

    I know that Vic’s judgement always seems clouded whenever PropertyNow is mentioned as he just flat out doesn’t like me but it still is no reason to speak gibberish on the topic of rankings. To hold that rankings for major phrases are not as important as actual traffic is……well…..do I really need to explain that to anyone?

    Glenn Rodgers I have never met you but I am so grateful for your voice of reason on this topic….you definitely “get” the subject matter.

    Andrew Blachut
    PropertyNow

  66. PropertyNow Real Estate Agency September 18, 2011 at 2:48 pm #

    Glenn Batten. The methodology for focusing on a few main keywords such as – real estate – is both simple and incredibly appropriate.

    We recently moved to an asp coded website and all the old PropertyNow pages become redundent because of the new url extension .aspx. Redirects are not much use …before you suggest a 301 redirect to me.

    Batten, if I used your ideas – about fixating my efforts on inner pages.. then I would either be in a bind now or at some point in the future.

    Were I to build or taget seo efforts towards inner page urls then I risk losing those at any point in time due to technology changes or website changes. Rather than risk that, I build the front page and make it so strong that any new keywords emanating from the primary domain will quickly rank. This is eactly what has occured with realestate.com.au…..they monopolise so many long tail words, because they first monopolised the main ones.

    My methodology works a treat for PropertyNow and is both stategic and sensible Mr Batten. And again as I admitted earlier , I don’t have multi million dollar budgets to buy traffic, in any case….. although that will soon change.

    In your absurd logic ( Glenn Batten and Vic ) you seem to suggest that if I ranked well for say “realestate au” or “real estate sydney” that would be somehow be better???…because of your Google trends data.

    Do you not fathom how you are arguing against your own logic with that data you quoted? Are you instead saying a website must rank for all of them?………a website does in fact and it’s called realestate.com.au.

    Glenn Batten you are saying bugger all and are quoting stats that actually support my argument. All you are doing is choosing different and somewhat lower keywords. It’s entertaining though and a nice Sunday diversion for me .

    Andrew Blachut
    ProeprtyNow

  67. Vic September 18, 2011 at 4:35 pm #

    What is the purpose of a first page google for “real Estate” or PR 6 if you get less than 20,000 UVs per month?

  68. Glenn Rogers September 18, 2011 at 5:29 pm #

    That’s not the first time I had a long reply finished, pressed the wrong key, not sure which and the window and reply vanished.

    So here we go again –

    Glenn B you’re being selective when you accept one set of figures from Google and not another I have never searched locality real estate except to check search positions, never to actually search for property in a location

    I always go to a portal and work from there and Googles figures suggest most do.

    The other terms get traffic, sure, but nothing in comparison the the main search term, I believe this to be true because it’s what I do as a consumer.

    I however don’t accept their Google trends data, do you know anyone who has ever searched realestate au rent ???

    No me either because they don’t it’s just not right.

    Just had a closer look at propertynow for the first time and I can see less than 1000 properties for sale in total, is that right or did I miss something ?

    That just doesn’t rank in portal terms and ensures the high ranking he has now wont last.

    Google get it right most of the time regardless of SEO, SEO just makes it easier for Google to get at whats there.

    Sites like REA Domain and REV have access to the best SEO but look what they have to deal with ? Those 3 sites have pretty much every listing in Australia, Google know that and those sites would float to the top in any case….easy SEO for those.

    REA has the added advantage of the domain name, you may not agree but I have no doubt they wouldn’t be at the top now except for that added advantage.

  69. Vic September 18, 2011 at 5:59 pm #

    Glenn R,

    Property now has been on the front page of google for 3 years. But it’s content and traffic have been minimal. And is likely to remain on front page for another 3 years. How would you explain that?

    To me it means the term Real estate on its own means very little.

  70. Glenn Batten September 18, 2011 at 6:16 pm #

    Glenn R

    Thats a pot and kettle story…. You accuse me of being selective..

    First of all show me one figure I have not accepted ??? The only figure you have provided is the total number of searches done on the word “real estate”.

    However.. fair call… I should not have just accepted that figure from you because you got it WRONG.. there is a one HUGE problem with your figure.. It’s a “broad” search result.. not an “exact” search.

    A broad search results is the number of searches with the word real estate in the search… so that includes all the suburb real estate searches.

    The number of searches on just the term “real estate” is only 673,000… a little over a 1/10 of the figure you claimed.

    Just so its clear now there is 5,447,000 (6,120,000 – 673,000) searches every month with real estate as ****PART**** of the search terms…

    ie…

    Brisbane real estate
    real estate brisbane
    Nerang real estate
    Sydney real estate
    etc etc

    Now lets discuss you being selective for a minute… .

    I show you a video earlier of a Google executive and you talk about what he meant to say and what he said off camera..

    Then I give you information from google itself supported by Propertynow’s own traffic claims and your own search results and you claim some of the data that Google provices is no good… Let me guess.. anything that supports your opinion is perfect.. anything that doesnt.. is just plain wrong πŸ™‚

    Google figures do not suggest that people search real estate… then visit the portal.. then refine from there. You have provided nothing to support your opinion other than the total searches for real estate and your opinion.

    Your own personal experience of 3000 searches does not even support your position.

    As to your comment relating to the fact that you dont search rental keywords does not mean other Australians dont. Try google keywords tool.. and you see rent keywords deliver very well.

    As to the specific realestate au rent keyword…. Google remove the “dot com” out of keywords when reporting on keywords… so people searching “realestate.com.au rent” get reported as “realestate au rent” and yes lots of people search that and other rent keywords even if you dont. Some of the most popular property related keywords in Australia are rental orientated.

    Before you start accusing people better look in the mirror next time hey πŸ™‚

    Care to remove your foot from your mouth now and accept that people do not search “real estate” then move to a portal, then refine… or do you still want to stick with that and maybe I am just being selective ????

    Next time logic is escaping your argument maybe it might be time to think your position is wrong before accusing other people.

  71. Glenn Rogers September 18, 2011 at 6:59 pm #

    Don’t get nasty Glenn B I can’t help it if you just don’t get it.

    If the term real estate is broad then so must the terms following it such as Sydney real estate etc so just wake up and accept the fact that 6,000,000 searches are just a bit more than 74,000, get over it and accept the obvious.

    The term is broad but it seems you just woke up to that or you would have dragged it up before.

    and by the way the exact result for Sydney real estate is 2,400 HA big deal, so it’s all relative.

    The term real estate is way and by far the most important regardless of what you think.

    Don’t bother harping back over the Cutts video either , I explained to you what I think so accept it or not, end of conversation.

    He is dialing back the importance of keyword rich domains big deal, tell that to REA or CRE who have been top of the tree for over a decade and aren’t even challenged by the weak names others are left with.

    Plenty might search realestate.com.au rent but that’s because they already know the REA web site and are in fact shortcutting to go straight to their rent section……..and that search takes you straight to their rent section, saves a few seconds perhaps.

    Don’t tell me to take my foot out of my mouth.

    See I’ve been there and done it and you just haven’t.

  72. Glenn Rogers September 18, 2011 at 7:04 pm #

    “””Property now has been on the front page of google for 3 years”””

    Didn’t realize that Vic guess he hasn’t benefited from it because the lack of content doesn’t allow related search terms to kick in, so content is very important – no idea how he ranks so high for that term for so long unless…..it’s bacause of lack of competition, be interesting to see what was above and below him, if he outranked some important sites such as First National then Matt Cutts better get back to that dial πŸ™‚

  73. Glenn Batten September 18, 2011 at 7:53 pm #

    You are a classic.. !!

    Dont admit or acknowledge you made a mistake (or few) .. just keep on arguing that you are right in spite of them.

    Your whole argument was that 6m was this huge figure, much bigger than the other searches and that proved that everyone was searching “real estate” before anything else … then visiting the portals..

    I show you the FACTS that your number is really just 600k… yet the OTHER searches using the word “real estate” which you claimed where only small are really 5.4 million… and you claim it still does not matter…

    IMHO thats just you being stubborn and not looking at the facts that they have been revealed to you.. I sort of understand why you were thinking the way you did given your mistake but now your position holds no logic whatsoever.

    Now you are claiming I am getting nasty.. Why is it that everyone who blindly believes (and states) their own opinions as facts claims it’s always personal whenever their facts are proven to be erroneous.

    See.. everything you have said except the magic 6m figure was just your opinion with nothing to support it.. and that evaporated on you.

    And I do love the irony of how you are quoting exact figures now.. made me chuckle..

    I didnt tell you to take your foot out of your mouth.. I asked if you wanted to… I see now you don’t.

    I need the rope back now, but it has been fun πŸ™‚

  74. Glenn Batten September 18, 2011 at 8:03 pm #

    Glenn R

    Just for the record.. I actually don’t mind if you have a different opinion than me…. I enjoy it.

    I do however find it hypocritical when the only real fact you quoted was so wrong yet you question me about being selective with them.

  75. Glenn Rogers September 18, 2011 at 8:05 pm #

    Glenn B that last post just proves you’re beyond help – end of conversation.
    Go sell something at least you might succeed in that.

  76. Glenn Rogers September 18, 2011 at 8:16 pm #

    For the last time the fact I quoted was not wrong, whether it’s broad of exact the following sub terms are in proportion.
    It doesnt prove you right it just proves your inability to be told amything because you just have to be right don’t you ……..but you aren’t.
    And writing copious notes of BS to cover your tracks hoping people wont be bothered answering doesnt change anything.

    Now I’m done, schools out, you failed unfortunately.

    Come back when you’ve proven yourself,

  77. Glenn Batten September 19, 2011 at 8:15 am #

    hahaha… you going to hold your breath next !!

    You got it wrong… you know it.. I know it..

    Your own words hang yourself with that rope … You said “real estate gets 6,120,000 searches per month in Australia”. You even repeated it and pointed it out a few times. It was the only fact you provided (any other one?? and it was wrong by a factor of 10.

    The figure that matches your description is just 673k. Covering yourself with … its in “proportion” does not make the figure right. You never quoted how many other searches had “real estate” in them which blows your proportion argument out of the water. We know that its 5.4m now.

    No matter how you try and explain it away 673k people per month does not prove your argument that a typical person searches “real estate” then visits a portal then refines that search.

    Thank for the education… you are an exceptional teacher πŸ™‚

  78. Glenn Rogers September 19, 2011 at 8:25 am #

    My contention was that I believe that people visit the portal and dig down from there, I believe the figures support that, broad or exact the figures still show that the vast majority search the main term.

    A teacher can only work with students who are able to listen, you just like the sound of your own voice, I pity those that have to work with you.
    I can hear the applause all the way from Nerang.

    You’ve only proven one thing, you are indeed a master debater.

  79. PropertyNow Real Estate Agency September 19, 2011 at 3:02 pm #

    Glenn Batten. I have closely analysed your comments in this thread and will address them at a length when I get time. But for now I want to say how infantile your tirade against Glenn Rodgers is.

    He has spoken a lot of sense and all you know how to do is attack people …which is also the modus operandi for Vic.

    I will address all your nonsense above in due course as there are far too many anomalies in what you say to respond quickly. Fortunately your approval is not required for PropertyNow to progress.

    Andrew Blachut
    PropertyNow

  80. Vic September 19, 2011 at 3:10 pm #

    Here’s something for the geeks to digest and or check out.

    When we set up our portal June 2010, we looked at all the likely key words and “phrases” that searchers would use to find the types of properties that we were about to list. Then we reasearched how often these words were actually used in google search. We came up with combinations relating to, Waterfront, waterside, beachfront, beachside, coastal, riverfront, lakefront and concentrated our seo around these. Then we added to each, property, properties and real estate. We then went further and using our key words added homes and houses.
    The result: We monitored on a weekly basis since early this year and as we speak we now come up on page one for all our selected phrases, with mostly page rankings of no1 to no 3. When the key words of “for sale” are added to our combinations we come up page 1 number 1 in all cases.

    Recently google rewarded us with a page rank of 4.

    This is not the only thing we have done SEO wise, but thought I’d share this with you and let you know that SEO is about targeting the market we are after- the market that is likely to want to buy something ON or NEAR the water. Our visitor stats are increasing at the rate of 20% plus and our leads via email is increasing monthly at around the same rate. This is what we aim for “visitor increases and leads”. Everything else to us is purely academic.

    We are well into State and suburb recognition and are reviewing our progress as we go.

    Our motto is “be clear of what you are about, research thoroughly then go for it”

    Vic Del Vecchio – Managing Director
    http://www.watersidepropertysales.com.au

    Blatant Plug – sorry Peter πŸ™‚
    ps. for those interested we are about to relaunch our new site which integrates the many facets of living, playing, holidaying and working on or near the water and expanding to neighbouring countries.

  81. Glenn Rogers September 19, 2011 at 4:33 pm #

    Doing well for all of these in Google, just random searches I would do if I were looking.

    water side homes sydney

    beach front homes sydney

    homes near the water in sydney

    homes close to the water in sydney

  82. PaulD September 19, 2011 at 4:55 pm #

    Glenn R

    “My contention was that I believe that people visit the portal and dig down from there, I believe the figures support that, broad or exact the figures still show that the vast majority search the main term.”

    In my experience, and after having spoken to hundreds of potential purchasers, and renters. The purchasers with very little exception ALWAYS go for the Location FIRST, and the description SECOND ie: “suburb” real estate.
    The renters do it more closely ie. rentals “suburb” v “suburb” rentals on about a 40 – 60 split

    Now Glenn R, I really couldn’t care less what you think, and you are entitled to your own opinion in any case. That is exactly how people have relayed it to me, and I have no reason to doubt them. I could well be getting people who are the minority, however I doubt it.

    In 2002 when we first got really seriously involved in the internet it was different, people went to “real estate” first and then the suburb, but that changed fairly rapidly after 2003-4, I have no idea why, only that it just happened that way. Further, I still have a Google adwords account, and looking at the latest months analytics, the “suburb” real estate, is 88.4% and the real estate “suburb” is 11.6% of the split between those particular search terms. As far as rentals go, it is the 40-60 split as stated above.

    So, there’s something to argue about.

  83. Glenn Rogers September 19, 2011 at 4:59 pm #

    Well PaulD I’m not arguing with you over anything and for the record I couldn’t care less what you think either.

  84. Vic September 19, 2011 at 5:03 pm #

    Thanks Glenn,

    Just googled those key phrases to find we are on page one for all of them and page 1 no1 for “homes near the water Sydney”. Also getting close to Glenn B’s territory we show on page 1 for “homes on the water Gold Coast”.

    I think you will find a similar pattern searching by state and region- suburbs are our weakness at moment.

    Glenn R any suggestions are welcome.

  85. PaulD September 19, 2011 at 5:05 pm #

    I was just going to ask you who would win the Melbourne Cup, because I thought ” here’s a guy who knows everything, surely he’ll give me a good tip”
    but on second thought maybe not, because you seem to have no idea about numbers and percentages, and you would need to know the odds.

  86. Glenn Rogers September 19, 2011 at 5:20 pm #

    Vic, no suggestions from me you seem to be doing fine.

    A good starting point is to out yourself in the minsdet of your customers , not bore the hell out of them like PaulD, but think as they do, use the terms you know they would use and see how it works.

    The examples I gave you there are just as I would search if I were looking for beach side or near beach listings but if I was more focused on a location I would probably go to a major and search from there.

  87. Glenn Rogers September 19, 2011 at 5:24 pm #

    Try this Vic – that what I’d search, near the water is more general than ON it.

    homes near the water Gold Coast

  88. Glenn Rogers September 19, 2011 at 5:36 pm #

    That search doesn’t even register on the Google keyword tool but I think you need to mix and match your own gut feeling with the established data from Google.
    There’s the advice I said I wouldn’t give.:)

  89. Glenn Rogers September 20, 2011 at 8:54 am #

    I cant really see any search phrases related to homes near the water that draw much traffic according to the Google keyword tool SO do people just choose a location then search generally to find something near the water ?
    I would probably search the area I want then find something near the water but I might also search directly for waterfront properties and if so I’d use a search such as suggested above – it may be a large number of diverse search terms like this direct traffic your way.
    I think it’s important to see that you’re ranking for them even if Google shows little activity there, it shows your site reflects what you do and the stock it has.

  90. Vic September 20, 2011 at 9:06 am #

    Paul D,

    Some good observations. I have this theory, and we have tested it over time, that the order in which the key words are entered matters little to google. As long as the key word/phrase information is there and google can determine its relevance to your content, then you are on the way.

  91. PaulD September 20, 2011 at 10:36 am #

    Vic,
    I went back to 2007 and those numbers remain fairly consistent over the last four and half years. I was surprised that even with the introduction of Google’s predictive text search, that those numbers changed very little. I would have thought that there may have been some change in the way people begin their searches. Perhaps you are right, that it doesn’t matter either way, and they all end up in the same place in any case. The google experience is a moving landscape, to which they give out a few clues but no definite map. It’s a bit like a treasure hunt, but they keep digging up the treasure and moving it.

  92. Glenn Batten September 21, 2011 at 8:53 am #

    Vic,

    I think the actual term could vary from place to place depending on the type of water front property. The couple I tried as it seemed natural to me were Gold Coast Canal Homes and Gold Coast Main River Property. You ranked page 1 on both. The former with a blog post and the last with a property search page.

    In both cases the page name was not a direct match or even close to the keywords searched so you did not rank by design, but simply because Google now considers you an authority (ie. brand) for waterfront property.

    I reckon if you want to rank well for each suburb with water orientated keywords you need to set up a bunch of landing pages just like REA and Domain do. Given your ranking already thanks to your work it would seem easy enough to rank very high for specific keywords.

    The other thing both of these (and other portals) do is create pages for each agency. Many agencies have poor SEO and they bank on the fact that they can rank better for the agency name than they can themselves. Domain still maintains pages for many agencies that have not had a domain account for years.

  93. Vic September 21, 2011 at 9:31 am #

    Glenn R,
    Agree with what you say- know where you rank even if there is little activity. But we also need to be careful that we don’t have place inordinate resource attention on chasing minimal traffic. This has been part of the journey for us.
    We are currently in the process of rebuilding our site and we need to be certain to include the SEO strategy that is working for us and include other stuff that we now know works for others. One of these that we have researched seems to be the way each unique url for individual property listings are displayed.
    For example both REIWA and REV seem to display “Real-Estate” first in their property urls. Domain and REA and THP show “property”. I can understand it with REA because of the strength of “real estate” in their domain name. Could be one of the reasons why REV slip ahead of Domain from time to time. But I don’t know.
    REV also seems to have the most comprehensive urls eg- “Real-Estate/full address/suburb/Property-Details-buy-residential- property ID”
    All helps I guess.

  94. Vic September 21, 2011 at 9:35 am #

    Glenn B,

    Posts must have crossed. Yes, good points and will take this on board for working on with our rebuild. Agency pages are now on our agenda. Thanks.

  95. Glenn Rogers September 21, 2011 at 10:12 am #

    Vic I wouldn’t be chasing those terms that’s not what I meant, I meant it’s nice to see you there , just a cross reference to see how you’re placed for logical searches, search different terms that you would use if searching for your listings and see where you are.
    Just another cross check in the overall plan.
    I wouldn’t go into the specifics of SEO here it’s just too complex and you probably know a lot of it anyway.
    Just don’t offend Google make sure Google can access your content easily and the rest will follow.

  96. Vic September 21, 2011 at 10:25 am #

    Glenn R

    I know you weren’t suggesting that. Just appreciate the feedback from you and Glenn B.

    “Don’t listen don’t learn”.

    Thanks to both of you.

  97. Vic September 21, 2011 at 2:06 pm #

    I know this post was not about us, but I just need to correct something I said earlier. Our google page rank has just been reduced from PR 4 to PR 2.

    Whatever that mean- πŸ™

    – but our traffic is on target, we gained three new agents today and all is rosy- well on track.

  98. Glenn Batten September 21, 2011 at 6:44 pm #

    Vic

    your website redirects to index.php… why? I dont know if this will effect you or not.. but there are not many sites that do that.

    As to improving your SEO…

    Create a checklist from this report http://www.seomoz.org/article/search-ranking-factors and then make sure you apply all or most from that checklist.

    The contributors to the survey are some of the best in their field outside of the search companies themselves.

  99. Vic September 21, 2011 at 7:10 pm #

    Not sure the reason- I will definitely find out from our new developer.

    We spent 6 months of concentrated SEO through a so called SEO wizard earlier this year, most of which outcomes we were not happy with. Our Andrew has since done more SEO work of his own and lately with our new developer for the refreshing (almost a total rebuild) our site.
    What we need to be careful of, is to maintain that which is good and work on the the things that we have learnt. And have a ton of patience πŸ™‚

    We are also launching our subdomain for watersideholidays.com.au and the principles learnt along the way will help.

    We are meeting Friday to thrash out the SEO issues and the seomoz link you gave me may well form the basis of our planning/check list.

    Thanks again.

  100. Glenn Batten September 21, 2011 at 7:57 pm #

    I wonder if thats the reason for your PageRank drop. If google considers that as a page of the site that may be the issue.

    On most websites pages have a lower ranking than the root domain.

  101. Vic September 21, 2011 at 8:07 pm #

    Could be Glenn. Will find out before the night is out. Could have something to do with our rebuilding.

  102. Vic September 21, 2011 at 9:09 pm #

    Apparently our site has had a problem from day one of building. Not a problem until we added serf urls with a redirect. Initially showed substantial page increases which google crawled and gave us the ranking of 4. Subsequent closer scrutiny by google they perceived duplicate content and so the downgrade recently. Make sense?
    My new developer actually warned us of this problem a couple of weeks ago but we couldn’t get our heads around it. He has planned to do it right and was covering it at our Friday meeting.
    Thanks Glenn for raising the issue.

  103. Glenn Batten September 22, 2011 at 12:12 am #

    Vic,

    Pagerank has to do with number of Inbound links, not the number of pages. The number of pages on a website is apparently part of the google algorithm but it should not be a part of PageRank which is pretty well known.

    However if old URL’s no longer work because page url’s have changed any inbound links not redirected correctly would have been lost and therefore PR would have been effected. You said the pages were redirected so as long as they were done properly I can’t see how that would be the reason for your big drop in PR..

    The correct way to handle url changes is through 301 redirects that way you dont lose any “link juice” and your pagerank is not effected. Agencies who chop and change website providers see this all the time. Everytime they get some traction they change again with a whole different url naming scheme and the old addresses 404. Also if somebody used 302 redirects instead of 301 that could explain it.

    The major web providers for real estate agencies out their don’t care to do it right by taking a snapshot of the pages on the old site.. and then setup a redirection to their new site.

    Duplicate content is a fact of life but it is not as much of a problem on the same domain as it is across multiple domains. On the same domain the official way to handle duplicate content is canonicalization.

    Improper or no use of sitemaps, canonical links and 301 redirects is often where site upgrades go wrong.

    Looking at your inbound links using
    https://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oGk.iJ6HlOSDAA1FDal8kF?p=watersidepropertysales.com.au&fr=sfp&bwm=i
    http://ow.ly/6AAMK

    you would not deserve a PR4 ranking so you must have lost a bunch of links in the past 6 months.

    but viewing http://www.woorank.com/en/www/watersidepropertysales.com.au

    shows some interesting stuff. Firstly it shows 1820 links back to your website.. That would have been enough to get you to PR4 if they were good links… so if those links are now no longer valid that could be your PR problem.

    There is plenty of other interesting stuff in that report and you should go through it and pay attention to every read cross but somethings stands out as a BIG problem… The report shows you have no page title, description, keywords, heading tags etc etc…I have never seen that before… You have to ask yourself is it just humans that are being redirected to http://www.watersidepropertysales.com.au/index.php and robots are seeing little to nothing. ???

    See how it shows a 0% ratio between text and html code.. something weird is going on.

    Run the report on any other website and it works fine.. but on yours it has a problem. If it has a problem with this robot then it might be a problem with Google’s robot to.

    I suggest some immediate action to find out just what google is seeing. If you have not got Google Webmaster then sign up for it and add your website and get it verified. Then under the diagnostics tab look for “Fetch as Googlebot” and use it to see what google sees when it visits your home page. Just as a side note since August 2011 Google has allowed you to use this tool to remove or add a url from their index in just one day. This is the quickest way to get a page on google… however there is a daily limit to stop spamming.

    Your other big problem is watersidepropertysales.com.au does not redirect to http://www.watersidepropertysales.com.au.

    Also, have a look at the alt tags for images on your website and ensure they are matching the keywords you are targetting for each page..

    How much did you pay for that SEO guru??

  104. Vic September 22, 2011 at 6:57 am #

    Some good stuff there Glenn. Thanks a million for that. I feel confident with our new developers skill level and approach and will pass above onto him.
    Learnt a lot in the past 12 months and none more than the past few days.

    Never listen never learn. CHEERS

  105. Dan October 10, 2011 at 5:29 pm #

    Great discussion guys, a lot of meat here to go back and sift through.

  106. Ben October 17, 2011 at 1:15 pm #

    What doesn’t seem to be talked about above, is the fact that REV own myhome, and they are using Myhome as a way to push their rankings up. If you browse the myhome website, you’ll see links like “View more NT Real Estate”, which links back to Realestateview’s NT page. This will be giving them a massive boost, however with Realestateview planing on shutting down myhome, this boost will be short lived for them.

  107. Business Trader October 28, 2011 at 4:26 pm #

    I was able to acheive many #1 Google rankings for my site including my main terms business for sale and businesses for sale and I can assure you it has nothing to do with page rank (business.domain.com.au is a competitor of mine).

    Also please keep in mind that the changes you noticed with domain happen around the same time Google was tweeking their algorithms. Just a temporary fluctuation by the looks of it.

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